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Because my job is to teach them chemistry. The grade should reflect how well they learned the material not how well they follow instructions.
Of course that's what their grade reflects, but why does it bother you that they don't really care about chemistry?
Colleges tell kids you have to have lab sciences so they take them. They care about passing the class. They care about the grade they get because colleges care about them. But they don't care whether they actually learn chemistry or not.
I don't know why this should bother you at all. Not every student who takes chemistry cares about it. It really is just a grade for some of them.
I agree that rubrics can be crutches for students. But I do think its unfair to tell kids "write a lab report". Kids need some sort of a guide as to what writing a lab report means to the teacher.
In the case of high school students it is reasonable to expect that they know what a paragraph is. However, different teachers have different interpretations of what compare/contrast means. By the time a kid is a junior in HS they may have has as many as 20 different teachers in HS alone.
Additionally, as a teacher, I don't understand how you would grade a lab report without some sort of rubric.
I do have a grading rubric but it's not something I'd hand to a student because it's very specific. For example, if I asked students to write a background section on ionic and covalent compounds, I'd be looking for 2-4 paragaph discussion where bond types are defined, physical properties are listed and explained in terms of bond type and properties, such as crushability, solubility, melting points, and whether or not they are electroytes are contrasted and compared.
I have had instances, however, where the student did not do what I had in my rubric but they still did a good job. This is especially true on the conclusion section. Sometimes, what the student concludes isn't what I intended but it's still good and indicates learning took place. So, my instructions for conclusions are to EXPLAIN HOW (students like to state WHAT instead of EXPLAIN) the objective of the lab was met and to discuss and offer possible explanations for THEIR errors.
Here's what I get with these instructions: A step by step recap of the procedures followed in the lab and a statement that "human error" caused their errors.
Of course that's what their grade reflects, but why does it bother you that they don't really care about chemistry?
Colleges tell kids you have to have lab sciences so they take them. They care about passing the class. They care about the grade they get because colleges care about them. But they don't care whether they actually learn chemistry or not.
I don't know why this should bother you at all. Not every student who takes chemistry cares about it. It really is just a grade for some of them.
I don't care whether they care about chemistry or not. I care that their grade reflect how well they learned chemistry. Rubrics that read like check lists to get an A bypass the learning process. The grade doesn't reflect how well they learned chemistry but how well they follow a check list. If I have to tell you, exactly, what goes into the answer, it's not your answer.
I care that the grade given is the grade that was earned. IMO, if I'm going to give them a rubric that reads like step by step instructions to get an A, I might as well do their work for them. I don't care if they don't care about the subject but they shouldn't be getting an A if that's the case.
What I want is a grade in my class to mean something. Right now, A's are meaningless. 25% of my students have an A in my class right now. That's because I have to make instructions very specific or I get an onslaught of irate parents and students who accuse me of not telling them what I wanted and I'd have a lot of failures if I don't do it. My choices are, grades that are meaningless and a high pass rate or grades that mean something with a lot of failures. The latter will not make parents, my administrators or my students happy and will, ultimately, cost me my job.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 01-08-2012 at 08:15 AM..
How are the supposed to figure it out? Guess and hope they are right? I like rubrics, for both teachers and students. In the example given above, how are students supposed to know they should include melting points? After all, they are taking the class they don't already know the subject matter.
Well, the teacher says something like "write a 2 page paper on _________" and the kids write a 2 page paper on that. Kids that do well know that they need proper structure to the paper, introductory paragraph, supporting paragraphs with details that support their information, and a good concluding paragraph. These kids have been writing papers since about 3rd grade, they should just KNOW this by now.
In chemistry, they discussed what kind of information should be included in a lab write up or whatever at the beginning of the year. The kids that can include all necessary information in a coherent matter are the A students, the kids that get most of the information are the B students, etc., etc. If they forget to add the melting points and get it wrong, they say "dang, I forgot the melting points', lesson learned and they remember to add that information next time.
I prefer that my kids learn how to think on their own vs following a checklist.
How are the supposed to figure it out? Guess and hope they are right? I like rubrics, for both teachers and students. In the example given above, how are students supposed to know they should include melting points? After all, they are taking the class they don't already know the subject matter.
Because labs typically come at the END of the chapter and we have already explained the differences between ionic and covalent bonds, which includes melting points.
The lab is supposed to show that they know the abstract concepts we have already covered well enough to use them practically.
And to be very clear, I give 10 pages at the beginning of the year describing what should and should not be in a lab report. The kids who get As typically refer to it, and the other kids just wing it. Then those kids parents complain. Where is the students responsibility? Why are they not expected to check with materials already given to them, posted on the class website, and available in the study room?
Well, the teacher says something like "write a 2 page paper on _________" and the kids write a 2 page paper on that. Kids that do well know that they need proper structure to the paper, introductory paragraph, supporting paragraphs with details that support their information, and a good concluding paragraph. These kids have been writing papers since about 3rd grade, they should just KNOW this by now.
In chemistry, they discussed what kind of information should be included in a lab write up or whatever at the beginning of the year. The kids that can include all necessary information in a coherent matter are the A students, the kids that get most of the information are the B students, etc., etc. If they forget to add the melting points and get it wrong, they say "dang, I forgot the melting points', lesson learned and they remember to add that information next time.
I prefer that my kids learn how to think on their own vs following a checklist.
So how are they supposed to know that melting points are part of the grade if nobody tells them?
You cannot tell a student "write a paper on X" without telling them more about how their paper will be evaluated.
So what? You teach chemistry. Most kids only take it because they have to take it. They really only care about getting a grade, and getting credit for that. I don't understand why that bothers you. Sometimes it really is all about the grade.
Grades are supposed to a reflection of what a student has learned. I don't care if they care about my subject or not, but it is frustrating that they want the grade without doing the learning. Students (and many people only have pupils) care about learning enough to EARN a grade. Most pupils only care about doing enough to GET a grade.
If you cannot understand the distinction than that is the heart of the problem here.
And to be very clear, I give 10 pages at the beginning of the year describing what should and should not be in a lab report.
If you tell them how they will be evaluated that is fine. It doesn't have to be a rubric, but it shouldn't just be a kid's best guess at what a teacher wants. I think that a written reference for lab reports is a bit better than a rubric because you do so many lab reports during a school year.
I just don't think kids should have to guess how they will be evaluated. Whether a teacher uses a rubric or another method to tell students how they will be evaluated is irrelevant.
So how are they supposed to know that melting points are part of the grade if nobody tells them?
You cannot tell a student "write a paper on X" without telling them more about how their paper will be evaluated.
Rubrics do not have to be checklists.
Rubrics were originally supposed to be for FORMATIVE assessments and the fact that they are being used on SUMMATIVE assessments is leading to rampant grade inflation.
The idea was students got not score based feedback on how well they were completing specific on an assignment BEFORE they were summatively assessed. But when they are used in a summative then they are, by definition a checklist of how the grade is assigned.
It is a failure to use a rubric for a summative assessment like a lab report.
If you tell them how they will be evaluated that is fine. It doesn't have to be a rubric, but it shouldn't just be a kid's best guess at what a teacher wants. I think that a written reference for lab reports is a bit better than a rubric because you do so many lab reports during a school year.
Any no one here who has lamented the rubric has said any such thing, implying that kids should have to just "guess".
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I just don't think kids should have to guess how they will be evaluated. Whether a teacher uses a rubric or another method to tell students how they will be evaluated is irrelevant.
Final summative assessments should not be graded similarly to formative assessments but I have had parents demand that I give my rubrics (which I use for my grading purposes) to students before they turn in summative assessments. No, I will not. So if little suzy leaves out the part on melting points, she is going to lose points because she does not demonstrated her knowledge of the subject area as well as little annie. End of story.
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