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Old 01-12-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Brazil
234 posts, read 716,381 times
Reputation: 158

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Is America education in such a mess, that someone would rather get cans off a road then teach, which is an admirable thing to do.

I mean is education and being a teacher in America in plain 2012 that bad?

I mean America should start copying third world country like Brazil how education is to ran then. That the board of education, the principal, parents, ex student and communities that makes decision of how the school should be run. Because the communities the parents etc that knows what they need in a school what should be done to better the education for their kids and not the government that doesn't know the reality of the daily routine of a school.

Here in Brazil the school building it self is ridiculous but how the school is ran is much better then America. The structure of most school is not built right where you have a gym area and auditorium and and nice spacious classroom, but the way the school is run is the best way an education system should be run not only the quality is right but the teacher profession is valued. Education is getting a great importance from the government where they are taking care of their country education WHY?
Because Education is where we will have productive, competitive, conscientious being formed. Education is a powerful weapon a country have to make a country grown economically and WISE.


Here for someone to teach she has to do a test competition where if there is 30 opening she will do a test and see if she scores high enough to reach that top 30. Then if she or he does she becomes a tenure teacher, with a starter salary, health and dental plan and other benefits etc etc.
Now salary could also depend on the experience and the many diploma you have level of education you have for say you have a master and etc. understand?
I mean America has no security in a teaching position not for the experience teacher not even for the newbies. COME ON!!!
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:47 AM
 
Location: Brazil
234 posts, read 716,381 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romila View Post
Is America education in such a mess, that someone would rather get cans off a road then teach, which is an admirable thing to do.

I mean is education and being a teacher in America in plain 2012 that bad?

I mean America should start copying third world country like Brazil how education is to ran then. That the board of education, the principal, parents, ex student and communities that makes decision of how the school should be run. Because the communities the parents etc that knows what they need in a school what should be done to better the education for their kids and not the government that doesn't know the reality of the daily routine of a school.

Here in Brazil the school building it self is ridiculous but how the school is ran is much better then America. The structure of most school is not built right where you have a gym area and auditorium and and nice spacious classroom, but the way the school is run is the best way an education system should be run not only the quality is right but the teacher profession is valued. Education is getting a great importance from the government where they are taking care of their country education WHY?
Because Education is where we will have productive, competitive, conscientious being formed. Education is a powerful weapon a country have to make a country grown economically and WISE.


Here for someone to teach she has to do a test competition where if there is 30 opening she will do a test and see if she scores high enough to reach that top 30. Then if she or he does she becomes a tenure teacher, with a starter salary, health and dental plan and other benefits etc etc.
Now salary could also depend on the experience and the many diploma you have level of education you have for say you have a master and etc. understand?
I mean America has no security in a teaching position not for the experience teacher not even for the newbies. COME ON!!!
Like I was saying teacher are hired through a competitive test which will test your skills on the choose area you want to work for which will be on early childhood education or elementary or high school area. You are tested for openings that are available like lets say 30 as I said before.

If you score high enough to get into the top 30 you are in. You become tenure and have all benefit a teacher get blah blah...when I say tenure doesn't mean that they can not fire you for it a lot of paper work and problems doing so but if they find your work bad to an extreme you will get fired which is something hard to be done. This process is done every 1 year which is rare but regularly done every two years.
Which I find a much more fair way for you will see the quality of the teacher knowledge on the area she choose to work if she past the test she is definitely qualified. Giving teacher a more security on her position.

And this works in all states in Brazil. Every state requires the same things for all teachers when the consider is the type of degree she has and so on.

Unlike America where every state demands a type of degree and every state demands a different time of licenses test making it difficult for those starting out.

And in Brazil all teachers start out with one time of salary all over the country state to state there is one type of salary for a teacher who is a starter, a starter salary which is of 1,400.00 Reais if you are a public state school teacher who works 5 hours a day.
And 1,600.00 for 8 hours a day for public city school teacher. For in Brazil there are two types of public school one run by the state and one by the city.

The point is that education is being valued and teachers too. And soon Brazil will not be considered a third world country but in first world country.

It is one of the country that did not suffer with the crises that is happening economically and is growing economically wise. Because they are investing in the education.

Is education that is a country most powerful weapon for with education the economy grows because the citizen will be educated meaning able to work and produce and etc.

Education is where citizen are form to being citizens who are productive, competitive, and conscious.

And from that we are able to have doctors more teachers and even president who makes up our future hopefully form a better government to making a life better for us who lives in it.

understand? what are your thoughts on America education and the working conditions teachers face now a days?
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Old 01-13-2012, 05:02 AM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,791,023 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Romila View Post
Here for someone to teach she has to do a test competition where if there is 30 opening she will do a test and see if she scores high enough to reach that top 30. Then if she or he does she becomes a tenure teacher, with a starter salary, health and dental plan and other benefits etc etc.
The fact that someone scores well on a test does NOT necessarily mean that person will be a good teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romila View Post
Now salary could also depend on the experience and the many diploma you have level of education you have for say you have a master and etc. understand?
That's how starting salary is determined. Taken into account is your past experience (years teaching) as well as the degree you hold. Masters Degreed teachers start with a higher salary than those with Bachelors degrees, which means that more highly educated teachers are sometimes passed over for less educated (e.g. "cheaper") candidates.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:36 AM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,063,999 times
Reputation: 6946
If we're going to copy another country, why wouldn't we copy a country that has the best outcomes? According to this Programme for International Student Assessment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia We should be looking toward Asian countries or Finland. America at least placed in the top 30 countries.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:47 AM
 
Location: GOVERNMENT of TRAITORS & NAZIS
20,549 posts, read 22,709,293 times
Reputation: 7625
America ahd the greatest education system in the world from the 1940s through the late 1950s early 1960s. Then we were all caught up in the space race and wanting every student to be a clone of their peer. We lost sight of creativity, thinking and problem solving and replaced it with rote memorization and standardized testing to show all students are cut from the same cloth and demonstrate effectiveness of teachers who no longer teach but partipate in KILL-DRILL activities.

What American needs is NOT another fad approach to educatuion, rather we need to return to teaching our students (not to the test) knowledge and how to apply it in the real world...
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Brazil
234 posts, read 716,381 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark of the Moon View Post
The fact that someone scores well on a test does NOT necessarily mean that person will be a good teacher.

I am not saying the test will determine if it a teacher is good or not. But it will at least show she has qualification. She knows enough knowledge to be able to teach. Understand?

That's how starting salary is determined. Taken into account is your past experience (years teaching) as well as the degree you hold. Masters Degreed teachers start with a higher salary than those with Bachelors degrees, which means that more highly educated teachers are sometimes passed over for less educated (e.g. "cheaper") candidates.
Yes, there is a starting salary. But if someone has years of experience and have a post or master degree of course they salary will be different then someone who is starting out.

The point is that a teacher salary should be fair. And that she should be hired by her qualification not because she knows and have connections inside the school.
It sad that good teacher are not being valued because they are consider expensive to the district. That they don´t want to tenure new teacher, but they will merit pay a bad one just because her class manage to memorize the stuff for that one day of test. Not learn it but memorized it for the stake of the test.

I think teacher should have a fairer working condition for so much they mean to the society to the community to the country. understand?
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Brazil
234 posts, read 716,381 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
If we're going to copy another country, why wouldn't we copy a country that has the best outcomes? According to this Programme for International Student Assessment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia We should be looking toward Asian countries or Finland. America at least placed in the top 30 countries.
Yes true...I went to those site you are right...But in the past 5 or 7 years that Brazilian been rethinking it education situation and are making changes...and it takes a while for the results to start showing...

But the way the schools are run here and the hiring process of a teacher is way better then America it seems.

Because from a lot of forum here teachers are either hired because they have connection or know the principal or someone inside a school or what not...

Teacher who are consider "good" are not valued. The district would rather put a cheap teacher that will cost less then put a good teacher.

The newbies are not having space to be able to work and start getting their experience and their hand on what it is like teaching so they can grow professionally and so on.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Brazil
234 posts, read 716,381 times
Reputation: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
America ahd the greatest education system in the world from the 1940s through the late 1950s early 1960s. Then we were all caught up in the space race and wanting every student to be a clone of their peer. We lost sight of creativity, thinking and problem solving and replaced it with rote memorization and standardized testing to show all students are cut from the same cloth and demonstrate effectiveness of teachers who no longer teach but partipate in KILL-DRILL activities.

What American needs is NOT another fad approach to educatuion, rather we need to return to teaching our students (not to the test) knowledge and how to apply it in the real world...
I totally agree with you kids needs to learn not be some robots that memorize things for a one time deal purpose of only passing a test and then forgetting what they learn because they only did it to past...what about true learning them being able to example what they learn and pass it on and use it in the future job or personal life....

Isn´t that what education is for, isn't it to learn.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:48 PM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,063,999 times
Reputation: 6946
Romilia, What you are getting from this forum is a very narrow view of a handful of American teachers. I am sure that some of them come on this forum to vent, which is certainly okay and expected. Every job has it's frustrations, teachers just happen to have a forum here to talk about it. If he could, my engineer husband would probably like to complain about his job too on a bulletin board. That doesn't mean that schools all over the US are in deep trouble, that all schools are corrupt in their hiring practices or don't value experienced teachers.

RIGHT NOW most schools are generally in financial trouble. So is our general economy. A company that has just so much money to hire a new person is going to try to get the best person they can for the lowest amount of money. Why would it be any different for a school? If they can only afford $40,000 a year but the teacher contracts state that they must pay $48,000 for someone that has a Masters, then they're going to choose the candidate with the Bachelors. However they CAN pick the candidate that had the most experience and did well in college. We have a glut of wonderful, experienced and certified teachers. The best ones will get hired.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:11 PM
 
11,151 posts, read 13,791,023 times
Reputation: 18791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romila View Post
Because from a lot of forum here teachers are either hired because they have connection or know the principal or someone inside a school or what not...
Just because some people are saying that on this forum doesn't make it true. I've never been hired because of who I know or any "connections" I might have, nor have the majority of my colleagues.

Frankly, given how critical you are of the American educational system, I don't understand why you're so interested in moving back here to teach .....
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