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Old 02-01-2012, 10:50 AM
 
9,356 posts, read 5,682,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You don't read many articles entitled "Symptoms your doctor may miss", do you? The story is generally of the "horror story" genre, where the patient said s/he was, for example, "tired in the morning" and turned out to have some horrific, bizarre disease that approximately six people are diagnosed with world-wide every year. There is at least one of those articles in almost every women's magazine, every month. I don't see a lot of teachers being fired, either.
NCLB has school closures and teacher firings hanging over their heads based on the test scores of students.

Adequate Yearly Progress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know many hospitals have closed but that is typically due to economic reasons is it not? Not based on how many patients are cured of disease?

The only equivalent would be holding nurses responsible for CURING diabetes regardless of what patients eat at home, how much they exercise on their own, and whether or not they take their mediations. When you did not cure diabetes, in 100% of your patients, were you fired?
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:52 AM
Status: "NO MORE TURNING AWAY" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Heart of TEA country--Livingston County, MI
7,714 posts, read 10,540,987 times
Reputation: 5328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
You don't read many articles entitled "Symptoms your doctor may miss", do you? The story is generally of the "horror story" genre, where the patient said s/he was, for example, "tired in the morning" and turned out to have some horrific, bizarre disease that approximately six people are diagnosed with world-wide every year. There is at least one of those articles in almost every women's magazine, every month. I don't see a lot of teachers being fired, either.
Do we really believe all the unemployed teachers are just recent graduates?
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Old 02-01-2012, 11:04 AM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,109 posts, read 60,752,266 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
NCLB has school closures and teacher firings hanging over their heads based on the test scores of students.

Adequate Yearly Progress - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know many hospitals have closed but that is typically due to economic reasons is it not? Not based on how many patients are cured of disease?

The only equivalent would be holding nurses responsible for CURING diabetes regardless of what patients eat at home, how much they exercise on their own, and whether or not they take their mediations. When you did not cure diabetes, in 100% of your patients, were you fired?
I know of a few schools in the Denver metro area that did not make AYP and so their students were given the oppotunity to attend another school with transportation provided (which is not usually the case around here with OE). I have not heard of any mass teacher firings in these schools. Your analogy is also not accurate. It's apples to oranges.

BTW, one does not "cure" diabetes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
Do we really believe all the unemployed teachers are just recent graduates?
Did I say they were?
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:55 PM
 
9,356 posts, read 5,682,257 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I know of a few schools in the Denver metro area that did not make AYP and so their students were given the oppotunity to attend another school with transportation provided (which is not usually the case around here with OE). I have not heard of any mass teacher firings in these schools. Your analogy is also not accurate. It's apples to oranges.

BTW, one does not "cure" diabetes.



Did I say they were?

Not "curing" diabetes is sort of my point.

Expecting every single student regardless of ability or interest to be proficient at every subject in school is as silly as expecting someone to "cure" diabetes.

The same way we treat diabetes we can improve scores but there is no fix for innate ability or social ills in education the same way a perfect nurse cannot, despite their best efforts cure an incurable disease.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:08 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,109 posts, read 60,752,266 times
Reputation: 20214
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
Not "curing" diabetes is sort of my point.

Expecting every single student regardless of ability or interest to be proficient at every subject in school is as silly as expecting someone to "cure" diabetes.

The same way we treat diabetes we can improve scores but there is no fix for innate ability or social ills in education the same way a perfect nurse cannot, despite their best efforts cure an incurable disease.
I still don't have an answer to the question, just who is being fired from the teaching profession? Where is the evidence of mass firings? Oh, I remember one school (in Rhode Island I think) where a principal (?) fired all his staff then offered to hire them back, but I haven't heard anything else like that, either here on CD or IRL.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:56 PM
 
9,356 posts, read 5,682,257 times
Reputation: 9380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I still don't have an answer to the question, just who is being fired from the teaching profession? Where is the evidence of mass firings? Oh, I remember one school (in Rhode Island I think) where a principal (?) fired all his staff then offered to hire them back, but I haven't heard anything else like that, either here on CD or IRL.
It hasn't happened yet. We have until 2014. That's why I said it is being held over our heads.

If we haven't cured all the ills of education by 2014 many teachers are likely to lose their jobs.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:25 PM
 
10,271 posts, read 7,779,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I still don't have an answer to the question, just who is being fired from the teaching profession? Where is the evidence of mass firings? Oh, I remember one school (in Rhode Island I think) where a principal (?) fired all his staff then offered to hire them back, but I haven't heard anything else like that, either here on CD or IRL.
Detroit

Detroit teachers face possible layoffs - Apr. 15, 2011

Quote:
The Detroit Public Schools district is sending layoff notices to all its 5,714 teachers, saying it must determine its staffing needs amid a drop in enrollment.
Note that while part of the drop in enrollment is because the population of the city is declining, part is because they have given kids in *failing* schools the choice to go to suburban schools.

Providence, RI

Quote:
Detroit's move follows a similar move in Providence, R.I., in February. The Providence public school department sent dismissal notices to every one of its 1,926 teachers.

A month later, the district announced it wanted to shutter four schools, eliminating up to 70 teaching positions. The closures would cut more than $12 million from the Providence school district's budget, which faces a $28 million deficit next year.
Los Angeles

California teacher layoffs: New law on teacher layoffs stirs confusion, criticism - Los Angeles Times

Quote:
The Los Angeles Unified School District laid off about 5,400 teachers and counselors to close a $408-million deficit in its $7-billion budget and has rehired only 3,500 of them.
Washington, DC (note the firing of *ineffective teachers that so many here think cannot happen)

More than 200 D.C. teachers fired - D.C. Schools Insider - The Washington Post

Quote:
The District fired 206 teachers for poor performance Friday, the second year in a row it has dismissed significant numbers of educators for sub-par work in the classroom.
Chicago

http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/teach...multuous-year/

Quote:
After discovering last week that nearly a quarter of their teachers were being dismissed, Austin Polytechnical Academy students decided to take extreme action. Holding secret planning sessions under the guise of a robotics team meeting, they plotted.
Quote:
Students and teachers said they are baffled as to why Williams, on his way out, would act so drastically by dismissing seven teachers and in turn placing five of them under the district’s do-not-hire designation.

Williams worked most of the year without a permanent administrative credential from CPS. Documents show he did not receive his credential until March 14, nearly seven months after the school year began. Williams’s interim status, and the fact that his credentials were not granted until shortly before he dismissed teachers, make his actions all the more bewildering, teachers say.

“So here we have someone who is a temporary administrator making a permanent decision on somebody’s career,” said John Kugler, the school’s union representative.

Over the past year the do-not-hire “list” has been a point of contention between teachers and the district. This is largely attributable to the lack of transparency: Teachers labeled un-employable by the system only found out when they applied for other CPS jobs and ultimately were rejected. After negotiations between the union and CPS, this year’s letters of non-renewal must now indicate the person’s ineligibility for re-employment by CPS.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:41 PM
 
2,190 posts, read 1,480,796 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I still don't have an answer to the question, just who is being fired from the teaching profession? Where is the evidence of mass firings? Oh, I remember one school (in Rhode Island I think) where a principal (?) fired all his staff then offered to hire them back, but I haven't heard anything else like that, either here on CD or IRL.

Our district has has several schools that have been "reconstituted", including mine. When that happens, all staff members must reapply for their positions, and the new principal has the final say over who he/she wants on the staff. It's very political, and we have lost some good teachers who have been replaced by people who are less skilled, but closer to the principal. Test results are higher, but a lot of that is because the students have been placed into double sections of the tested subjects and do nothing but test preparation for two years prior to the tests. I was able to stay at my school because I don't teach a tested subject. The new principal replaced about half of the positions, from custodian and kitchen staff to assistant principals, all of whom were replaced.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:45 PM
Status: "Snow is coming for Christmas!" (set 2 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,109 posts, read 60,752,266 times
Reputation: 20214
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Detroit

Detroit teachers face possible layoffs - Apr. 15, 2011



Note that while part of the drop in enrollment is because the population of the city is declining, part is because they have given kids in *failing* schools the choice to go to suburban schools.

Providence, RI



Los Angeles

California teacher layoffs: New law on teacher layoffs stirs confusion, criticism - Los Angeles Times



Washington, DC (note the firing of *ineffective teachers that so many here think cannot happen)

More than 200 D.C. teachers fired - D.C. Schools Insider - The Washington Post



Chicago

http://www.chicagonewscoop.org/teach...multuous-year/
It seems like the vast majority of these are for declining enrollment in the school district, or budget cuts, not poor performance. What other profession does this? To paraphrase Sarah Palin-ALL of them!
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:47 PM
Status: "NO MORE TURNING AWAY" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Heart of TEA country--Livingston County, MI
7,714 posts, read 10,540,987 times
Reputation: 5328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I still don't have an answer to the question, just who is being fired from the teaching profession? Where is the evidence of mass firings? Oh, I remember one school (in Rhode Island I think) where a principal (?) fired all his staff then offered to hire them back, but I haven't heard anything else like that, either here on CD or IRL.

I WAS...I was told my students did not make adequate yearly progress so they were realigning the program and cutting positions. I was not the only teacher to go that year.
.
NC has instituted STANDARD 6 in the teacher evaluations and as it was explained to me--If your students do not show adequate progress or growth on the state mandated standardized tests for 2 consecutive years, NONE of the other 5 standards will matter--even if you had 9's in all 5 standards but not the 6th, you will very likely be looking for employment elsewhere.

Nebraska, ALabama, I think Iowa and Florida are replacing hundreds of veteran teachers with TEACH for AMERICA recruits in the name of improving scores and lowering pay.
Teach for America recruits typically stay forless than 5 years before going on to teach in the majors in the private sector and evidence is showing ZEOR improvement an dquite possibly a decline in students' performance with TFA recruits.

Rhode ISland offered to hire them back at substantial lower wages--it was the school board NOT principal that fired them when they rejected merit pay based on student performance on standardized tests.

Last edited by zthatzmanz28; 02-01-2012 at 07:01 PM..
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