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Old 02-11-2012, 05:52 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 9,879,452 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
It's pointless to argue with someone with a libertarian viewpoint. They do not wish to have a democratic government. They have a right to run for office and if elected champion libertarian ideals. Until then they need to abide by the laws in place just like everyone else.

Many people believe that the federal government has overstepped its bounds with NCLB and Race to the Top. The states should be reponsible for meeting the needs of their citizens. The federal government's limited role should be solely related to making sure that constitutional laws are not being violated, specifically equal rights for all students with freedom from discrimination. Our law makers continue to battle over these issues.
Why is it pointless? So what kind of government do you think that libertarians believe in? Gee, thanks for acknowledging my rights as an American citizen.

Yes, in my opinion, the federal government has overstepped its bounds in many areas, especially in the area of education.

 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:53 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 9,879,452 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
You're getting worse. I think you should look at the NIH website, find a medicine which they've created, find a NIH subsidized doctor to treat whatever it is that ails yass. Go on along, we'll wait.....
I pay for any medicine that I use. What the pharmacy, or the manufacture wish to include in that cost is up to them.
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:53 PM
Status: "Humming "Suicide is painless"" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,269 posts, read 15,074,635 times
Reputation: 10765
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
You've told me to leave the US, and you get offended when I call you a leftist? Some would consider it a compliment.

If your job collapses because you took it, that's your problem. No one forced you to change careers. If you did it, I can only assume that you made an educated choice. Why should *I* subsidize your career choice? If you took a pay cut, I can only assume that there are some intangibles that give you more job satisfaction than engineering.
No, I told you you are free to leave. Seriously, if you think society does nothing for you and the government is stealing from you, you should think of finding a better place to live. That you don't leave is acceptance of the tax system we have in place. You are free to vote with your feet any time as we all are.

I don't consider it a compliment or an insult. I was just correcting a mistake you keep making. You're acting like only someone who is a leftist would think that we have an obligation to take care of children who can't take care of themselves. I'm just telling you that the right wing thinks this way too. When push comes to shove, the only person who thinks we should let kids starve or remain uneducated seems to be you. You should congratulate yourself. You have united both the left and right taking a stand against you. That should tell you about how much influence you'll have on government policy.

While the left and right debate how to implement welfare programs and public education, both sides see the need for both.
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:53 PM
 
464 posts, read 387,399 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by loloroj View Post
You're getting worse. I think you should look at the NIH website, find a medicine which they've created, find a NIH subsidized doctor to treat whatever it is that ails yass. Go on along, we'll wait.....
Again, the fallacy of this argument is that you argue that if the government doesn't create something, then it would not be created. And just for curiosity, could even give an example of a medicine that the NIH created?
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:55 PM
 
920 posts, read 666,805 times
Reputation: 916
[quote=daminos;22943393]So according to you, stealing money from one person, and giving it to another is proper, and moral?

To deny that the government is not stealing is intellectual dishonesty.[/QUOTE

The dishonesty lies with folks like you, who every single day of their lives, use a government created service or invention, then claim that it's theft. Who paid for the Corps of Engineers to make the flood plain safe for your home? Who paid for the highway which connects farms five states away to bring food so that you could waddle over and get it? Who paid for the ports which the tankers come into so as to offload the food from South America? It's just amazing the level of hypocrisy which some of you guys will display to try to justify your thinking, such as it is.....
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:56 PM
 
464 posts, read 387,399 times
Reputation: 97
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, I told you you are free to leave. Seriously, if you think society does nothing for you and the government is stealing from you, you should think of finding a better place to live. That you don't leave is acceptance of the tax system we have in place. You are free to vote with your feet any time as we all are.
Oh heck no...I, for one, am fighting to get this country back from people like you who I think have destroyed what was good about this country. I think it is you who should leave.
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:57 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 9,879,452 times
Reputation: 3539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No, I told you you are free to leave. Seriously, if you think society does nothing for you and the government is stealing from you, you should think of finding a better place to live. That you don't leave is acceptance of the tax system we have in place. You are free to vote with your feet any time as we all are.

I don't consider it a compliment or an insult. I was just correcting a mistake you keep making. You're acting like only someone who is a leftist would think that we have an obligation to take care of children who can't take care of themselves. I'm just telling you that the right wing thinks this way too. When push comes to shove, the only person who thinks we should let kids starve or remain uneducated seems to be you. You should congratulate yourself. You have united both the left and right taking a stand against you. That should tell you about how much influence you'll have on government policy.
Sorry, a true conservative would know that it is not the federal government's job to meddle with education, or to steal money from one group of people to give it to another. And no, I'm an American citizen, and I will fight for my principles by standing up to people who wish to destroy this country. I vote for free market candidates.

Again, you chose to ignore what I stated about 10 pages ago (more than once). I believe in funding a basic public education for the indigent, and I support charities that would do so as well.

I have no illusions that things will change in my direction for a few more years. Both the right and left are fans of big government. Things won't change until the economy has come to a standstill. You'll remember this argument then- and that day is coming.
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:58 PM
 
464 posts, read 387,399 times
Reputation: 97
[quote=loloroj;22943455]
Quote:
Originally Posted by daminos View Post
The dishonesty lies with folks like you, who every single day of their lives, use a government created service or invention, then claim that it's theft. Who paid for the Corps of Engineers to make the flood plain safe for your home? Who paid for the highway which connects farms five states away to bring food so that you could waddle over and get it? Who paid for the ports which the tankers come into so as to offload the food from South America? It's just amazing the level of hypocrisy which some of you guys will display to try to justify your thinking, such as it is.....
The fallacy of this argument is that you think if the federal government doesn't do it, it would not be done. We have state governments, local governments, and private institutions. We do not need the Federal Government. All the Federal Government does, it does VERY BADLY.
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:58 PM
 
920 posts, read 666,805 times
Reputation: 916
Quote:
Originally Posted by daminos View Post
Again, the fallacy of this argument is that you argue that if the government doesn't create something, then it would not be created. And just for curiosity, could even give an example of a medicine that the NIH created?
Listen, you can't create a parallel universe where you can claim that something that the market didn't/couldn't create would have been created by them anyway. It just plain ridiculous.

And you seem quite capable of going to the NIH website and finding out what they've funded and the amount of drugs which they've created. Go along, we'll wait.....
 
Old 02-11-2012, 05:58 PM
Status: "Humming "Suicide is painless"" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
21,269 posts, read 15,074,635 times
Reputation: 10765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
It's pointless to argue with someone with a libertarian viewpoint. They do not wish to have a democratic government. They have a right to run for office and if elected champion libertarian ideals. Until then they need to abide by the laws in place just like everyone else.

Many people believe that the federal government has overstepped its bounds with NCLB and Race to the Top. The states should be reponsible for meeting the needs of their citizens. The federal government's limited role should be solely related to making sure that constitutional laws are not being violated, specifically equal rights for all students with freedom from discrimination. Our law makers continue to battle over these issues.
Unfortunately, we need common standards. Right now, the eduation a child gets is dependent on the state in which they live. This is, especially, problematic when you have a transient population. Kids who move from one state to another can be in for a big shock. I had a student move to Florida last year. She went from being a better than average student to being at the top of her class over night. She came back to visit and said that she slept through class because she'd already learned what they were teaching. THAT should not happen.
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