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Unread 02-20-2012, 10:52 AM
Status: "Trying to thaw" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
20,156 posts, read 13,744,112 times
Reputation: 9842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
So is that the standard now? As long as nobody is harmed teachers can do as they like regardless of whether they are right or wrong?



As someone who has spent time in classrooms I have to say this is one of the more ridiculous statements I have heard. Punishing everyone for the transgressions of a few ensures that nobody will have an incentive to behave.



Having to comply with registration requirements and show id to purchase cold medication is hardly a punishment.

It is when you have chronic sinus issues and are only allowed to purchase 20 Claritin D's a month when you need them daily when your allergies flare up. I'm sorry but me having to pick which 10 days a month I won't be able to sleep because I can't breathe IS PUNISHMENT!! It's more than 10 if my dd's allergies are acting up because I can't buy medication for both me and her on my drivers license. I'm sorry but having to make a choice as to whether I get to breathe or my daughter gets to breathe IS PUNISHMENT. I don't make crack. Never have...never will but I have to jump through hoops to buy more than 20 pills a month. Obviously, you haven't tried jumping through the hoops you have to jump through to buy a month's supply of a medication that contains whatever it is that is used to make crystal meth for two people with allergies in the same household. Why are my daughter and I being punished because some people use the medication to make meth? Life was easier when you needed a script to buy these medications. I wish they'd just go back to that. Before they went over the counter, my doctor could just write a script for 30 pills and they gave me 30 pills and her doctor could write a script for 30 pills and they gave her 30 pills. Now it's a max of 20 per person even with a script and then my doctor has to call in when I run out to approve the other 10 to get me through the month AND I can't purchase for both my dd and myself!!!! Once I use my allottment, I have to find someone else to purchase anything my dd needs because the pharmacy balks at two doctors calling in the same script for members of the same family. I'm sure because of some government regulation due to some people making meth. I don't make meth. I just want to breathe. Fortunately, I can, usually, find people willing to buy the meds for me when I explain our plight. If I can't, one of us has to take Benedryl in spite of the fact it makes us both sick. It's either feel sick or not be able to breathe. Nice choice there....and you think we're not being punished for the actions of a few. We get punished every day of allergy season because of the actions of a few. That reminds me, it's time to start stocking up on Claritin D. I have to have enough in the house to get both of us through our spring allergies before allergy season is upon us. Neither of us needs medication during the winter. I don't know what people do who have more than one person in the house with indoor allergies. Dd is allergic to animals but only needs to take something a couple of times a month when it's particularly bad.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 02-20-2012 at 11:04 AM..
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Unread 02-20-2012, 11:01 AM
 
8,228 posts, read 3,967,093 times
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The Latin teacher in my school is an older gentleman. This year he has frequently been the subject of harassment by his sophomore and freshman classes. I say CLASSES and not individual students, because when those class clown types act up in his class, ALL of the students laugh, give high fives, etc to the few acting up. So he gives the entire class detention. It has started working because the laughing and encouragement which motivated the few is now gone for the most part.

So yes, peer pressure can absolutely be used as a disciplinary tool in some cases.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 11:09 AM
Status: "Trying to thaw" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
20,156 posts, read 13,744,112 times
Reputation: 9842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
this sounds a bit like, u can discipline those other kids but not my baby. bottom line. any attempt by teachers and admin to discipline students in any form will not be supported & will be met with parental and legal actions. that is why k12 is doomed and that voucher will eventually take it over. w/o discipline there is no learning.
ITA! I got reprimanded, earlier in the year, for CALLING on a student. She stares at the corner all hour. So, I started calling on her to try and pull her back in. Her parents said I embarassed her. So now she stares at the corner and her parents are mad because I failed her. You see, I must be a bad teacher if I can't get their dd to work for me.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 11:10 AM
Status: "Trying to thaw" (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Whoville....
20,156 posts, read 13,744,112 times
Reputation: 9842
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
The Latin teacher in my school is an older gentleman. This year he has frequently been the subject of harassment by his sophomore and freshman classes. I say CLASSES and not individual students, because when those class clown types act up in his class, ALL of the students laugh, give high fives, etc to the few acting up. So he gives the entire class detention. It has started working because the laughing and encouragement which motivated the few is now gone for the most part.

So yes, peer pressure can absolutely be used as a disciplinary tool in some cases.
Sounds like my 2nd and 5th hours. I have no doubt that I will have to give a class detention before the year is up, precisely, because other kids in the class encourage the bad behavior of a few.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 01:19 PM
 
8,241 posts, read 9,411,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
So is that the standard now? As long as nobody is harmed teachers can do as they like regardless of whether they are right or wrong?



As someone who has spent time in classrooms I have to say this is one of the more ridiculous statements I have heard. Punishing everyone for the transgressions of a few ensures that nobody will have an incentive to behave.



Having to comply with registration requirements and show id to purchase cold medication is hardly a punishment.
Um.....it is YOUR opinion that what the teacher is doing is wrong. I don't see a thing wrong with it, unless there is some corporal punishment or abuse involved. By your own admission, no one is being harmed, so I fail to see the problem.
Quite the contrary, everyone has incentive to behave if there is a threat of punishment. I think that being limited in purchases, or being forced to show ID very much punishes me. As do speed traps and increased rates on water use because some people overuse water. I could go on and on.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 01:40 PM
 
159 posts, read 87,613 times
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I have to disagree, i do believe there is a time to use it and a time not to and I feel that students CAN be instrumental in the getting the class undercontrol. Once you have the "bad ones" on your side, everything goes like clock work and as I have told my classes. If they are following the rules, why do you think YOU are the exception. As for the example from the OP, were you there when this happened?
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Unread 02-20-2012, 01:43 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 9,371,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Um.....it is YOUR opinion that what the teacher is doing is wrong. I don't see a thing wrong with it, unless there is some corporal punishment or abuse involved. By your own admission, no one is being harmed, so I fail to see the problem.
So is that the standard? If a teacher doesn't actually harm anyone they can do whatever they want to do regardless of whether it is right or wrong?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Quite the contrary, everyone has incentive to behave if there is a threat of punishment.
When my son was in 1st grade he had a teacher who took recess away from the entire class if any one person did not finish their morning work. My son came home from school and told me that he didn't think that they would ever have recess again because there would always be someone that didn't finish their morning work. He also told me that there would always be somebody that did not finish so it didn't really matter if he did his work. In other words, a 6 year old figured out that it didn't matter if he did what he was supposed to do because he was going to be in trouble anyway.

Do you treat your children that way? If you had multiple teens with licenses would you take driving rights away from all of them because one got a speeding ticket?
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Unread 02-20-2012, 02:35 PM
 
634 posts, read 775,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I have classes where I cannot give work time because too many students will abuse the time. It is what it is. There's nothing I can do to make the students who don't use the time to work use the time to work. They are not motivated by lower grades and calling home is, rarely, effective. So, I just don't give work time. My good students will do the work on their time. The students who don't work still won't work BUT using the class time for additional lecture or examples means that, at least, they've seen someone else do the problems. Who knows. Maybe they'll learn something by osmosis.
No it isn't.....it is called ineffective classroom management.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 03:11 PM
 
8,228 posts, read 3,967,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyolady View Post
No it isn't.....it is called ineffective classroom management.
Wow.

Just wow,

I cannot comprehend how you can think it is "ineffective" to not give students free time because it will be abused by a significant portion of the class. That is the definition of effective classroom management, not setting them up to fail. Sheesh.
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Unread 02-20-2012, 03:20 PM
 
8,228 posts, read 3,967,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Do you treat your children that way? If you had multiple teens with licenses would you take driving rights away from all of them because one got a speeding ticket?
I do treat my children that way frequently.

If their job was to clean up the yard, and it wasn't when I got home they all faced the consequences.

Second, in your own example, maybe the teacher couldn't be in two places at once. And sometimes the need to discipline the few is more important than the need for all to have a privilege.

Reality is managing a classroom of 20 or 30 is not the same as managing two or three. It is seriously setting children up for failure to have them expect to be treated as an individual in a group setting ALL THE TIME. It just does not work that way out in the real world at all times.

I happened to be walking in Boston near one of the "occupy" protests when the police came in to move some of the people out. I need to go literally one block across from the protestors, but the police were sending everyone the other way. Should I have demanded that the police differentiate between me and the protestors? Was it fair? Maybe not, but it also is just the way the world works sometimes. I went over two blocks and came around. Really not a big deal if it helps maintain the peace. Neither is a class detention.
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