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Forty plus years ago, educational standards tended to be higher than they are now. Standardized achievement tests have noted a gradual decline in the last twenty years in the performance of American students in English and Math skills.
If we go back in time, women were often constrained in their choice of occupations. It was rare to see a working woman who was not either a teacher or a nurse. As a result, education got the very most intelligent and best skilled women. Presumably, this translated into the country getting topnotch teachers at bargain wages.
I am not saying or suggesting that such a system was "just", "right", or desirable. I am simply articulating that was the reality than.
Than in 1964, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act which prohibited employers from discriminating against job applicants based on their race, sex, religion, or national origin. Many cultural changes occurred throughout the 1960's and 1970's which opened many doors for women into other occupations. Today, we find large numbers of women in every imaginable occupation including law, medicine, business, and engineering. There are many women owning and running their own businesses.
While this has been good for sexual equality, does anyone here believe it has had a negative effect on education in that the field can no longer attract "the best and brightest" teachers? Could we even conclude that this one factor is the major reason why educational achievement among our children has declined in the last 20-30 years? We aren't going to "roll the clock" back (and we shouldn't).
Am I right? Wrong? Or partly right?
Last edited by markg91359; 06-30-2012 at 08:12 AM..
I would suggest as each suceeding generation of youngster became more and more braindead, with a five-minute attention span, and parents who were only marginally better that teaching was seen as shoveling sh*t against the tide and the best people went elsewhere.
The secondary school teachers that I knew in the 90's were eagerly looking forward to getting out of teaching, and these were people who had taught for decades in what had once been an excellent public school.
Forty plus years ago, educational standards tended to be higher than they are now. Standardized achievement tests have noted a gradual decline in the last twenty years in the performance of American students in English and Math skills.
If we go back in time, women were often constrained in their choice of occupations. It was rare to see a working woman who was not either a teacher or a nurse. As a result, education got the very most intelligent and best skilled women. Presumably, this translated into the country getting topnotch teachers at bargain wages.
I am not saying or suggesting that such a system was "just", "right", or desirable. I am simply articulating that was the reality than.
Than in 1964, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act which prohibited employers from discriminating against job applicants based on their race, sex, religion, or national origin. Many cultural changes occurred throughout the 1960's and 1970's which opened many doors for women into other occupations. Today, we find large numbers of women in every imaginable occupation including law, medicine, business, and engineering. There are many women owning and running their own businesses.
While this has been good for sexual equality, does anyone here believe it has had a negative effect on education in that the field can no longer attract "the best and brightest" teachers? Could we even conclude that this one factor is the major reason why educational achievement among our children has declined in the last 20-30 years? We aren't going to "roll the clock" back (and we shouldn't).
Am I right? Wrong? Or partly right?
For the most part, I agree with your analysis. I've said the same thing for years. My wife is the perfect example. She's a registered nurse who went into the profession because it, for the most part, was the highest achievable position in the medical field that was traditonally pursued. If she were just going to college now, she definitely would pursue being a medical doctor. When she graduated with her Bachelor's Degree she was #1 in the class, Summa *** Laude. She's a level of nurse academically that is seldom seen now since most young women with her abilities are becoming MD's, PT's, Anesthetists and other medical fields that require a doctorate.
The one part of your statement that I strongly disagree with is that this is THE major reason for the decline in education achievement. It is a factor, just not nearly with as much weight as you state. The MAJOR factor is the breakdown of the nucleous family with the accompanying disintegration of respect for authority and discipline. The biggest problems start at home and ends up affecting the classrooms. The failures of the family are perpetuated by not allowing the schools to clamp down on discipline. The teachers and administrators hands are tied lest these parental figures who have already failed on their end, complain that someone is trying to keep their little Johnny in line.
Forty plus years ago, educational standards tended to be higher than they are now. Standardized achievement tests have noted a gradual decline in the last twenty years in the performance of American students in English and Math skills.
If we go back in time, women were often constrained in their choice of occupations. It was rare to see a working woman who was not either a teacher or a nurse. As a result, education got the very most intelligent and best skilled women. Presumably, this translated into the country getting topnotch teachers at bargain wages.
I am not saying or suggesting that such a system was "just", "right", or desirable. I am simply articulating that was the reality than.
Than in 1964, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act which prohibited employers from discriminating against job applicants based on their race, sex, religion, or national origin. Many cultural changes occurred throughout the 1960's and 1970's which opened many doors for women into other occupations. Today, we find large numbers of women in every imaginable occupation including law, medicine, business, and engineering. There are many women owning and running their own businesses.
While this has been good for sexual equality, does anyone here believe it has had a negative effect on education in that the field can no longer attract "the best and brightest" teachers? Could we even conclude that this one factor is the major reason why educational achievement among our children has declined in the last 20-30 years? We aren't going to "roll the clock" back (and we shouldn't).
Am I right? Wrong? Or partly right?
Sexual equality and non-discrimination weren't the causes of education going downhill. It was the informality introduced in the 1960's. Kids used to dress more formally for school. Then suddenly it was ok to come to school in jeans and T-shirt. Classroom discipline became more "flexible" at some point after that. Teaching methods changed. There was a movement toward alternative schools, and a variety of "alternative" teaching methods were experimented with, and some became mainstream. I'm sure that some of this varied from state to state, but the overall effect has been an erosion of educational standards.
And what about this odd anti-homework movement among parents today? How is that helping maintain educational standards?
Forty plus years ago, educational standards tended to be higher than they are now. Standardized achievement tests have noted a gradual decline in the last twenty years in the performance of American students in English and Math skills.
I have no idea where you get the above idea. Do you have any proof that STANDARDS are lower?
Everyone looks at our ranking in the world and then supposes that means that standards are lower. Kids are learning more than they did even when I was in high school just 20 years ago. My daughter had Calculus as a sophomore, all kids have to pass college prep classes as we have done away with tracking, math SAT scores continue to rise. The issue isnt the STANDARDS.
Quote:
If we go back in time, women were often constrained in their choice of occupations. It was rare to see a working woman who was not either a teacher or a nurse. As a result, education got the very most intelligent and best skilled women. Presumably, this translated into the country getting topnotch teachers at bargain wages.
You are ignoring the fact that the majority of women didn't work at all. Only 25% of married women in the 50s worked. And the majority of them did not work as teachers (many teachers were "let go" when they got married).
So now nearly 50% of the workforce is women. Therefore FAR MORE women are working then before. That number is going to completely overshadow and perceived artifact of loss of "intelligent" women to other careers.
And just as an aside, teachers have a median IQ of 104 and high school teachers have a median IQ of 110.
Therefore teachers are still above average in intelligence.
Finally, considering what we know now about how people learn compared to what was known in the 50s or 60s, teachers are trained with more skills regarding teaching strategies than previously.
Quote:
I am not saying or suggesting that such a system was "just", "right", or desirable. I am simply articulating that was the reality than.
Than in 1964, Congress passed the Civil Rights Act which prohibited employers from discriminating against job applicants based on their race, sex, religion, or national origin. Many cultural changes occurred throughout the 1960's and 1970's which opened many doors for women into other occupations. Today, we find large numbers of women in every imaginable occupation including law, medicine, business, and engineering. There are many women owning and running their own businesses.
While this has been good for sexual equality, does anyone here believe it has had a negative effect on education in that the field can no longer attract "the best and brightest" teachers? Could we even conclude that this one factor is the major reason why educational achievement among our children has declined in the last 20-30 years? We aren't going to "roll the clock" back (and we shouldn't).
Am I right? Wrong? Or partly right?
Partially right but for entirely the wrong reason. IF teacher quality is not what it could be, then it is much more likely due to the fact that teacher make less money than most correlating jobs with similar degrees.
And what about this odd anti-homework movement among parents today? How is that helping maintain educational standards?
Because if it was just simple homework or studying, then fine, but it is not. Some classes and schools pile it on so much it deprives parents time with their own kid. There is a lot to learn outside the classroom, and I would like to spend time with my kids in the one life I have.
Easier today than ever before for any smart, ambitious 10yo kid to self-teach business English, math, stats, finance, comp sci, etc via khan academy, udacity, kindle, etc; get a GED; maybe attend Stanf CS for a yr before dropping out to join GOOG or some start-up as a highly-paid engineer....much like many kids can "attend" college for a yr or so before dropping out to join NBA/NFL....HS/colleges are merely archaic union cards for various socioeconomic gps seeking upward mobility
And ironically despite so many girls at college, etc, vast majority of top-earning engineers or traders in world's most Darwinian industries, software and hedge funds, are Jewish/white/Indian guys (not many Chinese/blks/Mexicans), most of whom would be considered socially inept (and targets of discrim/ridicule) by any good ole boy salesguy or industrial CEO or politician....speaks to market value of social skills and socially-mandated "diversity", or irrelevance thereof in modern tech era (and not many transgenders/girls in NBA/NFL/MLB either, right? Where are the Jews/Indians in NBA/NFL? What's pay in girl sports?)
I would suggest as each suceeding generation of youngster became more and more braindead, with a five-minute attention span, and parents who were only marginally better that teaching was seen as shoveling sh*t against the tide and the best people went elsewhere.
Oh my God. Best quote ever about why teachers quit. A million reps for you!
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A million reps for you!
