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Old 07-19-2012, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Plymouth, MN
308 posts, read 896,602 times
Reputation: 394

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there are some disciplines that require not only lots of practice, but also a specific type of mind or talent to be able to thoroughly enjoy the progression from basics to easy to hard to impossible level of achievement.

it is not easy to become great at math, just as it is not easy to become an excellent musician. you either have that gift / frame of mind / passion, or you don't. just take it from someone whose dad is a brilliant math professor -- he lives and works in his own separate dimension, but he is completely clueless when it comes to basic real-world stuff (my mom does everything for him).
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:12 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati near
2,628 posts, read 4,296,891 times
Reputation: 6119
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90sman View Post
Because we don't use a lot of the things we "study" in science and higher level math in our daily lives. When are we going to use things like x^+2xh+h^2=(x+h) in our lifetime unless you become a scientist or something? And why do we need to know how old a rock is? It's old.
How do you determine whether $1000 cash back and a 5.5% auto loan is a better deal than 2.5% and no cash back?

How do you decide whether to open a traditional vs. a Roth IRA?

How do you calculate how much grout to buy when tiling your kitchen floor?

How do you help your 6th grade kid with their homework? Maybe they have the aptitude to be a scientist or engineer but are not given the opportunity due to their parent's ignorance.

While I recognize that not everyone will need to use vector calculus and group theory in their everyday life, a basic understanding of algebra is as important today as learning to read was a hundred years ago. All of the reasons why learning algebra is not important could be applied to literacy in a pre-high tech world.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:29 AM
 
1,034 posts, read 1,798,510 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
Don't forget, 1/2 the people have less than average intelligence.

A mind numbing statistic!
Hey! I have a very high IQ, thank you very much, but I find math and science just not all that interesting.

Quote:
How do you determine whether $1000 cash back and a 5.5% auto loan is a better deal than 2.5% and no cash back?

How do you decide whether to open a traditional vs. a Roth IRA?

How do you calculate how much grout to buy when tiling your kitchen floor?

How do you help your 6th grade kid with their homework? Maybe they have the aptitude to be a scientist or engineer but are not given the opportunity due to their parent's ignorance.

While I recognize that not everyone will need to use vector calculus and group theory in their everyday life, a basic understanding of algebra is as important today as learning to read was a hundred years ago. All of the reasons why learning algebra is not important could be applied to literacy in a pre-high tech world.
We use calculators, much faster than figuring it out with pen and paper.
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Old 07-20-2012, 08:58 AM
 
301 posts, read 1,326,990 times
Reputation: 222
Math is truly no different from any other activity that one endeavours to become proficient in. For example, take someone who is skilled at guitar. Did they just one day pick up the instrument and start magically playing songs perfectly from beginning to end? Heck no! They locked themselves in their bedroom or basement for hundreds and hundreds of hours struggling with chord changes, timing, and rhythm. All this effort helped produce the skills need to play the guitar well. You could sub in almost any other activity and the same would hold true---skating, woodworking, reading, walking, video games, making a bed, baking....

Why should math be any different? You learn by doing! Ask any math prof and they will tell you the same thing. You want become better a factoring polynomials, proving a trig identity, or proving two triangles congruent? Start by investing let's say one hundred hours, pencil in hand, and actually start doing some math problems. Want to get better at math? You have to get your hands dirty! Don't stop at just reading your class notes or textbook. Get doing some problems! Will you run into troubles? YES! Just like the budding guitar player who, at the start, struggled seemingly forever in order to transition smoothly from a C chord to a G chord---but eventually "got it" after he/she practised enough. The same principal applies with math. Consistency (better to do a bit of math every day than cram) and persistency pays off. At the end of the one hundred hours, you will be better at math. Invest another one hundred hours, again, you will walk away even better than before.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand how math can present its own unique set of challenges to those daunted by the subject. Having access to a good math teacher/ tutor to get over any initial hurdles is extremely beneficial, maybe even necessary. Short of having access to a math tutor, the internet is an incredible tool for self learning (and should be used even with the guidance of a teacher). But once you can get your math "training wheels" off and have develop mastery over algebra (a very reachable goal), your learning will quickly accelerate; to the point where you don't need much hand-holding.


It all starts by putting pencil to paper! Start doing some math!
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:33 AM
 
15,446 posts, read 21,341,511 times
Reputation: 28701
Quote:
Originally Posted by drsmiley06 View Post
Why can't most people understand science and math?


Ha! They apparently understand math enough to know there's no money to be made in math or science in America.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:04 AM
 
2,488 posts, read 4,320,786 times
Reputation: 2936
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chemistry_Guy View Post
How do you determine whether $1000 cash back and a 5.5% auto loan is a better deal than 2.5% and no cash back?

How do you decide whether to open a traditional vs. a Roth IRA?

How do you calculate how much grout to buy when tiling your kitchen floor?

How do you help your 6th grade kid with their homework? Maybe they have the aptitude to be a scientist or engineer but are not given the opportunity due to their parent's ignorance.

While I recognize that not everyone will need to use vector calculus and group theory in their everyday life, a basic understanding of algebra is as important today as learning to read was a hundred years ago. All of the reasons why learning algebra is not important could be applied to literacy in a pre-high tech world.
I learned how to do a lot of this in high school Finance math class, still look back at my notes and we never used any of those Algebra II like formulas. It was more practical and basic math. But it was probably the most useful class I took in high school.

I also learned from my father since he's been a carpenter and a plumber. He said he's never used any higher level math equations and doesn't even know them.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,427 posts, read 3,982,492 times
Reputation: 2300
Quote:
Originally Posted by LLN View Post
Don't forget, 1/2 the people have less than average intelligence.

A mind numbing statistic!

actually 1/2 the people have less than **median** intelligence

it's an important difference for those who understand science and math
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:58 PM
 
Location: NYC
2,427 posts, read 3,982,492 times
Reputation: 2300
has anyone referenced the book "The Myth of Ability: Nurturing Mathematical Talent in Every Child" yet?

we don't do a very good job teaching math

in the college classes I teach, i get smart, hard working students who just haven't been lucky enough to have good teachers. it's unfortunate

we act as if learning math were like learning alchemy, when it really can be very useful and creative

plus the financial incentives for people who truly are "good at math" to teach such skills to others are very low -especially when such people can usually make six figures with a minimum of effort in industry

sad stuff
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:17 PM
 
11,630 posts, read 12,691,000 times
Reputation: 15757
I wish that I could blame my math teachers, but I can't. I had some fabulous ones. It was me, not them.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:29 PM
 
1,034 posts, read 1,798,510 times
Reputation: 2618
Quote:
we don't do a very good job teaching math

in the college classes I teach, i get smart, hard working students who just haven't been lucky enough to have good teachers. it's unfortunate
I'll say!
My 18 year old is a bright young man, but he struggled with math all through school, and never could master one thing before they hopped over to something else.
He managed to scrape through remedial math in his freshman college year, then barely got through freshman math. His one desire now is to get through his next required math course and be done with it. He even considered taking the course this summer so he could give it his total attention, but he managed to get a summer job, and decided it was more important to earn money and get work experience.
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