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Old 06-06-2012, 05:51 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,417,416 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Who said anything about offensive?

Most likely they were not for "first place" or whatever. Your son didn't even know. Perhaps they were about kids who made strides in their behavior. Who knows? It doesn't matter. Kindergarten isn't the time for ranking. Just leave it be and move on.
I've already done it, K is over after all...but I was simply thinking about a new strategy to approach his next teacher with in 1st grade. How to ask.

I just know it felt frustrating for me to never know, throughout the entire K year, how well he was doing in comparative terms, besides meeting (and exceeding some) standards.

I mean, come on, if you knew your child just "meets" state standards whereas many other kids in his class perform a few grade levels above, way ahead of yours...would you shrug this piece of info off as if it was nothing and just be pleased he meets "state" standards?

I couldn't...but then again, maybe I am the defect one.

To me, this sounds like an "economics" thing. Do you believe in prices set by the officials/government/some authority (as in a command economy) or in those set by the free market? If the government says this is worth 10 dollars yet the free market will only pay 3 dollars for it...what do you do?

You adjust to the free market, no?

This is the main philosophy behind my motivation to know where he REALLY stands.
The sad part is that this also sounds like the "arms race" but we're living it up within the grid in the 21st century. I am yet to find a way out of the grid though.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Denver 'burbs
24,012 posts, read 28,376,368 times
Reputation: 41122
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I've already done it, K is over after all...but I was simply thinking about a new strategy to approach his next teacher with in 1st grade. How to ask.

I just know it felt frustrating for me to never know, throughout the entire K year, how well he was doing in comparative terms, besides meeting (and exceeding some) standards.

I mean, come on, if you knew your child just "meets" state standards whereas many other kids in his class perform a few grade levels above, way ahead of yours...would you shrug this piece of info off as if it was nothing and just be pleased he meets "state" standards?

I couldn't...but then again, maybe I am the defect one.

To me, this sounds like an "economics" thing. Do you believe in prices set by the officials/government/some authority (as in a command economy) or in those set by the free market? If the government says this is worth 10 dollars yet the free market will only pay 3 dollars for it...what do you do?

You adjust to the free market, no?

This is the main philosophy behind my motivation to know where he REALLY stands.
The sad part is that this also sounds like the "arms race" but we're living it up within the grid in the 21st century. I am yet to find a way out of the grid though.
See below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by maciesmom View Post
Seems to me the teacher told you exactly what you need to know. He excels, he got maximum grades and he is well advanced in reading. That is clearly more than "he met or exceeded" all milestones expected at this age.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:20 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,725 posts, read 11,678,191 times
Reputation: 9828
Home school. Seriously. You can avoid a lot of agita for your child's teachers and yourself.

It sounds like you won't be happy with the school ever. When they tell you he is top 5, you'll want to know if he's top 3. If they say he's third, you'll want to know who the two above him are. You think they are denying you information to mess with you instead of them rightfully respecting the confidentiality of others.

Besides that, to think you can quantitatively rank K students by any kind of meaningful metric is ludicrous. "Ms. Syracusa, your child colors outside the lines 23% of the times - three other students in the class have a better percentage."
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:29 PM
 
13,235 posts, read 9,849,560 times
Reputation: 14283
Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I've already done it, K is over after all...but I was simply thinking about a new strategy to approach his next teacher with in 1st grade. How to ask.

I just know it felt frustrating for me to never know, throughout the entire K year, how well he was doing in comparative terms, besides meeting (and exceeding some) standards.

I mean, come on, if you knew your child just "meets" state standards whereas many other kids in his class perform a few grade levels above, way ahead of yours...would you shrug this piece of info off as if it was nothing and just be pleased he meets "state" standards?

I couldn't...but then again, maybe I am the defect one.

To me, this sounds like an "economics" thing. Do you believe in prices set by the officials/government/some authority (as in a command economy) or in those set by the free market? If the government says this is worth 10 dollars yet the free market will only pay 3 dollars for it...what do you do?

You adjust to the free market, no?

This is the main philosophy behind my motivation to know where he REALLY stands.
The sad part is that this also sounds like the "arms race" but we're living it up within the grid in the 21st century. I am yet to find a way out of the grid though.
I have a theory. Perhaps the teachers think its good for the kids to learn within their own capabilities, and they don't think it's relevant to your child that other kids perform grade levels above in kindergarten. Perhaps they think giving the parent that info will result in them putting their child under undue pressure at a very early age, potentially killing their love of learning as a result.

Perhaps they would like you to take the info they gave you regarding your child as pertinent to your child's abilities, because if he could be at the same grades above level as these other mythical classmates, then he would be.
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Old 06-06-2012, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Geneva, IL
12,980 posts, read 14,523,531 times
Reputation: 14862
Syracusa,

Perhaps if you were honest, people would understand your intentions more clearly.

You are a very competitive person, and that is why you want to know what academic rank your son holds. People can explain why this is not done in K till they are blue in the face, but rank and placement is important to you.

It is unimportant to most parents and of no benefit to your son. IMO of course.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:47 PM
 
Location: here
24,873 posts, read 36,072,590 times
Reputation: 32726
OP, you are demonstrating the exact behavior the teacher, and most likely all future teachers are trying to avoid.
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Old 06-06-2012, 07:59 PM
 
Location: southwestern PA
22,340 posts, read 47,314,292 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
Home school. Seriously. You can avoid a lot of agita for your child's teachers and yourself.

It sounds like you won't be happy with the school ever.
When they tell you he is top 5, you'll want to know if he's top 3. If they say he's third, you'll want to know who the two above him are. You think they are denying you information to mess with you instead of them rightfully respecting the confidentiality of others.
Ditto this, especially the bold part.
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Old 06-06-2012, 09:45 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,054,443 times
Reputation: 32572
The arms race?

No.

The arms race was, at times, a matter of life and death. Cuban Missile Crisis. Nuclear tipped Atlas rockets.

This is kindergarten.

You really want to know how to deal with this? Loosen up. If your child is that stellar he will succeed and in 12 years and you can watch him proudly as he sorts through acceptance letters from universities in 30 countries. (BTW that achievement is usually because of the CHILD and not because he has a parent anxious to know how he measures up when he's five. Hint. Hint. Wink. Wink.)

You can't see the flower that is in front of you because you are so worried about the fertilizer.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:09 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,417,416 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
When they tell you he is top 5, you'll want to know if he's top 3. If they say he's third, you'll want to know who the two above him are.
With all due respect, why do you make assumptions about what I would want THEN? Just believe I want to know what I told you I want to know - not more.

There is a long way between having an approximate idea about where your child stacks up in class (among the first, average, towards the bottom) to knowing exactly WHICH kids are above yours.
Kindly don't put words in my mouth and intentions in my head.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
You think they are denying you information to mess with you instead of them rightfully respecting the confidentiality of others.
Anyone is yet to explain how exactly the "confidentiality of others" would be broken if I was told where my child ranks approximately in class - NO NAMES included, just percentages/ballparks.

So this would break the confidentiality of others, yet mothers required to come in for reading centers and pretty much seeing with their own eyes how various children perform...THAT doesn't break their confidentiality?

How do you think I was able to figure out that X child was not that good academically and Y was? By pretty much being required to go there and volunteer my time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
"Ms. Syracusa, your child colors outside the lines 23% of the times - three other students in the class have a better percentage."
Hmmm. Last time I checked K had gotten SO far beyond "coloring between the lines" that I think it is hypocritical to argue K is still the pastoral dream it used to be. Not when mothers have stories like this:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/educa...rds-pre-k.html
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:22 AM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,417,416 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
I have a theory. Perhaps the teachers think its good for the kids to learn within their own capabilities, and they don't think it's relevant to your child that other kids perform grade levels above in kindergarten. Perhaps they think giving the parent that info will result in them putting their child under undue pressure at a very early age, potentially killing their love of learning as a result.

Perhaps they would like you to take the info they gave you regarding your child as pertinent to your child's abilities, because if he could be at the same grades above level as these other mythical classmates, then he would be.
I have looked at your theory with good will and have found some holes in it. Here is my view: what teachers think it is relevant to my child is important - but the parent should also have a say here. I simply believe they should not be left in the dark about comparative information.
To pretend that competitiveness doesn't matter in a world that has turned completely "survival of the fittest" is highly hypocritical and anxiety-producing for most parents, whether they like to admit it or not.

I disagree that if children CAN naturally reach a certain level at a certain age, they will do it on their own regardless, with or without parental input.
Many parents today simply require/guide, some of them even force, their children to accelerate or to enrich materials studied in school.
Moreover, not all of us have self-motivating children, excited about skipping 3 grades ahead academically - all on their own, while mama cooks in the kitchen.
That doesn't mean they don't have the capability to do just so, if doing so becomes important. Such children will need to be guided and motivated by the parent at home.

I know mine does because he is a capable but VERY lazy child.
I taught him how to read and I know for a fact that had I not put in the work that I did with him, he would NOT have performed as well in K as he did with reading.

In reality, he is NOT motivated to read, and based on what I saw they did in school this year, he would have been miles behind with reading had I relied strictly on what is done at school and the "state standards".

About his reading, his teacher told me "I don't know what you're doing, but keep doing what you're doing, it works well".

Right. What I am doing is not pretending K is still a pastoral dream. That's all.

Last edited by syracusa; 06-07-2012 at 02:47 AM..
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