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Old 06-07-2012, 09:58 AM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,058,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohiogirl81 View Post
The teacher probably just wanted the kids to enjoy themselves without parents helicoptering over them for once.
Absolutely.

It's also the last time the teacher is going to be with that group of students. The first thing I thought of was that it was her way to enjoy being with them one last time and say goodbye to them.

I wouldn't have wanted parents there either were I her. It was between her and her students. The kids having fun being together one last time as a class. If you look at it that way, it's really rather sweet.
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Old 06-07-2012, 10:33 AM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,809,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post

Hmmm. Last time I checked K had gotten SO far beyond "coloring between the lines" that I think it is hypocritical to argue K is still the pastoral dream it used to be. Not when mothers have stories like this:

Awards in Pre-K
However, they still don't generally rank kids in K. And, frankly, it is almost never important where you rank until high school.

What is important is learning the material. Even getting good grades in elementary school is pretty much not a consideration as you can improve at any time. In middle school or high school, then you *may* want to worry about grades in order for your child to get into a good college. But, you know, it isn't only those who go to elite colleges who succeed, have decent jobs and enjoy life.

The American Scholar: The Disadvantages of an Elite Education - William Deresiewicz

Quote:
What happens when busyness and sociability leave no room for solitude? The ability to engage in introspection, I put it to my students that day, is the essential precondition for living an intellectual life, and the essential precondition for introspection is solitude. They took this in for a second, and then one of them said, with a dawning sense of self-awareness, “So are you saying that we’re all just, like, really excellent sheep?” Well, I don’t know. But I do know that the life of the mind is lived one mind at a time: one solitary, skeptical, resistant mind at a time. The best place to cultivate it is not within an educational system whose real purpose is to reproduce the class system.

The world that produced John Kerry and George Bush is indeed giving us our next generation of leaders. The kid who’s loading up on AP courses junior year or editing three campus publications while double-majoring, the kid whom everyone wants at their college or law school but no one wants in their classroom, the kid who doesn’t have a minute to breathe, let alone think, will soon be running a corporation or an institution or a government. She will have many achievements but little experience, great success but no vision. The disadvantage of an elite education is that it’s given us the elite we have, and the elite we’re going to have.
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Old 06-07-2012, 11:48 AM
 
Location: Oxford, Connecticut
526 posts, read 999,797 times
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Syracusa am I missing something? Doesn't your child get a report card? That should give you a good idea of where they stand in regard to the class. The parent teacher conference as well. Believe me, if your child were one of the top students in the class the teacher would tell you. You'd also know because they would be getting work above and beyond the other kids. You'd also know that they were in the top reading group. It is the same if they are struggling, you would know.

I have to say that this whole concept of awards is foreign to me and I didn't grow up in a foreign country. We didn't have awards of any kind until high school. Even then, they were academically based and the only kids invited to the awards ceremony were those receiving them. With my own kids I have yet to see any kind of awards, but they are still in elementary school.
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Old 06-07-2012, 12:59 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,418,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laulob View Post
Believe me, if your child were one of the top students in the class the teacher would tell you.
No, she wouldn't. Neither would she tell me if he was one of the bottom ones. She would tell me how he does relative to state standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laulob View Post
You'd also know because they would be getting work above and beyond the other kids.
Granted I have made it clear nobody knows what kind of work other kids get or what they do, how would I know what "work above and beyond the other kids" looks like?


Quote:
Originally Posted by laulob View Post
Syracusa am I missing something? Doesn't your child get a report card? You'd also know that they were in the top reading group. It is the same if they are struggling, you would know.
Yes, he does get a report card (he had maximum grades on everything except the part about following three-step directions); yes, he is in the top reading group and yes, I have been told by his teacher that he is "advanced" and "way ahead" in reading (her words). But then again, reading does not equal overall performance. He is "way ahead" in reading because I worked with him A LOT. That's all.


However, by "way ahead" the teacher meant "way ahead" of state standards. That doesn't tell me much. Let alone that K does not equal reading. There are many other aspects of academic performance which gives an "overall" in comparison to a general population.
It is this "overall" that I was interested in, but it is clear the teacher does not want to utter a word for PC reasons.
For example, when he was placed in AR (a program his teacher said that she doesn't normally do for K kids) she told us that we should not talk about it with other parents because those parents might be offended if they found out their child was not placed in the same program. At least one other child was placed in this AR program too but I do not know how many or who (it was not important). We wouldn't have talked to other parents about such things anyway but the whole "hush-hush" atmosphere was a bit uncomfortable to me.

For example, we are particularly worried about my son's "processing speed" and "staying on task" abilities which came out very low compared to the general population when he was evaluated last year.

This was not part of the cognitive test on which he scored high and very high on most sections and which prompted the psychologist to tell us he is "very smart" (her words). However, it is an important part of his neurological functioning which can severely mess up his performance and place him way behind many less "officially smart" children.

I doubt many parents whose child would score so low on "processing speed" and "staying on task" tests would be completely relaxed about their child's performance.
The teacher too confirmed that he does indeed have attention problems. So "he is advanced" but "he has attention problems"...what am I supposed to get out of this? How about an honest ranking so we can cut to the chase?

To know that your child has more than enough intellectual ability yet he can score very poorly on tests or just seriously under-perform...that can be enough to make you want to know more about how he stacks up.

Last edited by syracusa; 06-07-2012 at 01:23 PM..
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:20 PM
 
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Thanks for the article. Quite a unique "niche" he found and very "Noblesse Oblige" but I personally found it a bit lame and not a bit (a lot) hypocritical.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Oxford, Connecticut
526 posts, read 999,797 times
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Did your son receive a DRA or Lexile score? That would tell you the grade range his reading level falls into. That is how our reading groups are based and the books they read in K reflect those levels.

I don't really understand how much more specific of a ranking you are looking for. I know others have said this but there is no GPA in Kindergarten. I understand being dismissive of state standards. Where I live too, about 98% of kids meet the standards and about 78% far exceed them. You really need to see how they fare in terms of their own school. You will not be able to tell this in Kindergarten nor does it matter. Where I live it is 3rd grade where children's academic paths begin to become part of the picture. They begin standardized testing and you see some classroom environments that are more challenging than others.

You really need to just get through the possible ADHD concerns you are having and find out how to best accommodate your son. You can worry about GPA and class ranking later.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:25 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,418,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laulob View Post
Did your son receive a DRA or Lexile score? That would tell you the grade range his reading level falls into. That is how our reading groups are based and the books they read in K reflect those levels.
I never received an overall score; I just know he would miss a couple of questions or so out of 8 most times he was tested. He would sometimes get them all correct but not often.


Quote:
Originally Posted by laulob View Post
You really need to just get through the possible ADHD concerns you are having and find out how to best accommodate your son. You can worry about GPA and class ranking later.
We are scheduled for an evaluation in August. It will be interesting, but we are bracing ourselves for the ADD dx.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
19,480 posts, read 25,023,395 times
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Another thing to consider is Sweet Little Boy may be #1 in his class if he attends School A, in the middle of his class if he attends School B and the bottom of his class if he attends School C.

He would still be the same Sweet Little Boy but all the other sweet little children would be different.
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Old 06-07-2012, 02:48 PM
 
4,043 posts, read 7,418,235 times
Reputation: 3899
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626 View Post
Another thing to consider is Sweet Little Boy may be #1 in his class if he attends School A, in the middle of his class if he attends School B and the bottom of his class if he attends School C.

He would still be the same Sweet Little Boy but all the other sweet little children would be different.
Sure, it goes without saying.
We are certainly taking into account the approximate national ranking of the school itself. For whatever it's worth, this is supposed to be one of the best public elementary schools in the state. All parents try their very best when they decide on location - this was our very best.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:40 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,809,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post
I never received an overall score; I just know he would miss a couple of questions or so out of 8 most times he was tested. He would sometimes get them all correct but not often.

We are scheduled for an evaluation in August. It will be interesting, but we are bracing ourselves for the ADD dx.
The DRA score is usually on the report card. It's not something on the evaluations. Also, it may be maxed out for his grade level, though sometimes teachers will keep going if a child reads better than average. In general, they will test up to level 18 to 20 in kindergarten, but not beyond even though your child *may* be reading at a higher level than that.

Here is a list of books and there levels

DRA Book List

Kindergarten levels are from 1 to 4. By the end of K, kids should be reading somewhere between 3 and 6. Third Grade is 28+

My dd's level at 4th grade is 44 which is average for the end of 4th grade, but she doesn't like reading, so she doesn't do much outside of what is required. Her dad was the same way.
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