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Old 06-28-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,393 posts, read 29,697,018 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Seriously? Many of the students I taught were not risk takers. They were afraid to be wrong. They wanted grades not knowledge. Yes, they have social skills, but in general, that did not lead to innovative thinking or taking risks, but to following their peers wherever that led.


This is my experience as well. They want grades, not knowledge and cry foul if you expect knowledge. Every test I hear "BUT you didn't do a problem EXACTLY like that before the test...how were we supposed to know how to do it?" ... UM, APPLY what I taught you!!!
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Old 06-28-2012, 03:48 PM
 
Location: An hour from NYC*wheep*
410 posts, read 706,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
If I remember correctly (I can't find the stats anymore), Asian American students outperform all the Asian student in Asian countries. White American students also outperform all European countries with the exception of Finland. So American K-12 education for these demographic groups are indeed second to none in things like the rote mastery of facts, analysis, and creativity. The big problem lies mostly with Black and Hispanic students and they tend to perform near the level of Third World students. This isn't to say the American education system is perfect (it isn't) but that the main problem is access and Blacks and Hispanics are getting inferior education and not the same level of access as Whites. Unfortunately, I don't see this situation improving and in fact I see it worsening especially since Hispanics will comprise a much larger portion of the population. If America continues to ignore Hispanics and I suspect they will, the problem will get much worse in the future.

Last time I remember about certain groups outperform other groups were African Immigrants. Pretty interesting since this country always talks about Asian students outperforming everyone, I guess not anymore...
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 69,870,497 times
Reputation: 27519
Meanwhile over 300 IT companies sent a letter to DC asking to remove or raise the cap on H1-B visas because there's not enough skilled workers here and they've already used up almost 80% of their 2013 allotment.

Sounds like these IT companies want a tad bit more then "social skills" here.

H-1B Visa Supply Nearly Exhausted For 2013 - Global-cio - Outsourcing - Informationweek
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:38 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,469,660 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.

Compare the same percentiles to each other, otherwise the comparison is not valid. American public schools are preparing the students just as well if not better than elsewhere, the difference is that ALL students are being funneled into college when many of them should be doing other things. That is not the fault of the school system.

Look what happens when more than just the top students are sent into these programs:

"My research team at Duke looked in depth at the engineering education of China and India. We documented that these countries now graduate four to seven times as many engineers as does the U.S.The quality of these engineers, however, is so poor that most are not fit to work as engineers; their system of rote learning handicaps those who do get jobs, so it takes two to three years for them to achieve the same productivity as fresh American graduates."
Oh I don't know about that. The article tried to make the claim that US k-12 students were way ahead of the rest of the world, whether they go to college or not. The point is that even if the students DON"T go to college, they still can't do the work that they supposedly learned several years back. That's what the remedial courses prove. College is simply a stress test which underscores the fact that what the author stated just isn't true. And the fact that we have more students in college than ever before and that more of them have to take remedial courses only shows that if we extend the study far enough, US k-12 isn't doing the job.

By the way, Duke did a study which showed that nearly 1/2 of their graduate engineering students DON"T go into engineering due to the lack of jobs or opportunity in engineering. Why is that so? Because US firms have lobbied to get foreign engineers to come over with relaxed H1-B/L visas. So we have a paradox here, the author claiming that foreign engineers aren't up to industry standard, but that same industry is lobbying quite hard to get those inadequate engineers to work here in the US. In a case such as this, I think it's best to follow what the real money does rather than what they say, and what they're doing is going overseas to get those putative inadequate engineers. Kind of tells me that what the author wrote isn't very accurate....
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:39 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 20,969,336 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Meanwhile over 300 IT companies sent a letter to DC asking to remove or raise the cap on H1-B visas because there's not enough skilled workers here and they've already used up almost 80% of their 2013 allotment.

Sounds like these IT companies want a tad bit more then "social skills" here.

H-1B Visa Supply Nearly Exhausted For 2013 - Global-cio - Outsourcing - Informationweek

What if the "Skilled Worker Shortage" is a Myth? - Living in Dialogue - Education Week Teacher
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:40 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 20,969,336 times
Reputation: 4076

Video - Wharton's Peter Cappelli Explains Why Job Seekers Don't Land Jobs - WSJ.com
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:44 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,469,660 times
Reputation: 955
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Meanwhile over 300 IT companies sent a letter to DC asking to remove or raise the cap on H1-B visas because there's not enough skilled workers here and they've already used up almost 80% of their 2013 allotment.

Sounds like these IT companies want a tad bit more then "social skills" here.

H-1B Visa Supply Nearly Exhausted For 2013 - Global-cio - Outsourcing - Informationweek
I posted before I had a chance to read your post, but it underscores what I wrote, that if those foreign engineers were so inadequate, then why is US industry working so hard to get those inadequate engineers over here?
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:46 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 20,969,336 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.

Compare the same percentiles to each other, otherwise the comparison is not valid. American public schools are preparing the students just as well if not better than elsewhere, the difference is that ALL students are being funneled into college when many of them should be doing other things. That is not the fault of the school system.

Look what happens when more than just the top students are sent into these programs:

"My research team at Duke looked in depth at the engineering education of China and India. We documented that these countries now graduate four to seven times as many engineers as does the U.S.The quality of these engineers, however, is so poor that most are not fit to work as engineers; their system of rote learning handicaps those who do get jobs, so it takes two to three years for them to achieve the same productivity as fresh American graduates."
Education in the Age of Globalization Blog Archive U.S. Scientist and Engineer Supply as Strong as Ever: A New Study Finds
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,394 posts, read 8,344,729 times
Reputation: 7679
World education rankings: which country does best at reading, maths and science? | News | guardian.co.uk Maybe not.
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:49 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 20,969,336 times
Reputation: 4076
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkb0714 View Post
In most countries only the top 25% of students or less are encouraged (or in some places allowed) to go to college. Therefore comparing those students to the near 70% of US high school students going on to college is disingenuous at best.

Compare the same percentiles to each other, otherwise the comparison is not valid. American public schools are preparing the students just as well if not better than elsewhere, the difference is that ALL students are being funneled into college when many of them should be doing other things. That is not the fault of the school system.

...
Education in the Age of Globalization Blog Archive Nature Article: Interpreting International Test Scores: Is the U.S. Really Behind?
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