Unschooling Question (grade, exam, courses, science)

[nana053]

Originally Posted by lkb0714

If an unschooler is taking a formal class than a transcript would exist, but for many people (and I would venture to say MOST) that isn't unschooling, but rather relaxed homeschooling.

A transcript in the US is the permenant record of all COURSES taken, including GRADES. If a child is unschooled, how can they have grades? How can they have actual course work? Even home school diplomas and transcripts state that in order to receive "credit" they have to complete x amount of hours in a subject, or read and complete work on a certain textbook. Both of which mean it is homeschooling and not unschooling.

Unschooled children don't get grades traditionally, but when they are older, they may take classes and get grades depending upon what they want to do.

Unschooling doesn't limit the kids. If the kids want to take classes even as young children, unschoolers will allow that.

[AnotherTouchOfWhimsy]

Originally Posted by nana053

Unschooled children don't get grades traditionally, but when they are older, they may take classes and get grades depending upon what they want to do.

Unschooling doesn't limit the kids. If the kids want to take classes even as young children, unschoolers will allow that.

They do what they need to do in order to achieve their goals. If their goals include going to college, then they take the classes/courses or put in the hours to make that happen. Since they've been self-directed since they were young, this is something that unschooled kids are able to do.

On the other hand, they often realize that there are many options besides going to college for four years. Some unschooled kids start their own businesses, some take on apprenticeships, some travel. It just depends on the person.

[lkb0714]

Originally Posted by nana053

Unschooled children don't get grades traditionally, but when they are older, they may take classes and get grades depending upon what they want to do.

Unschooling doesn't limit the kids. If the kids want to take classes even as young children, unschoolers will allow that.

So basically if they want to go to college they STOP unschooling, and begin formal schooling eitherh ome schooling or community college.

[AnotherTouchOfWhimsy]

Well.... kind of. They're going to school, but it's their choice... at that point, the "what" that they're doing is the same, but the "why" is different. They also know that they have the ability to stop if they want to, which is something that most high schoolers aren't able to do. (Yes, of course some high schoolers love school and wouldn't choose something else even if they could. I'm just referring to the reason that they're there in the first place.)

It's sort of the difference between working in an office because you want to (either because you love it or because you know that it will lead to a better job), and working in an office because it's the only job you can get. In one scenario, you know that you can pursue another path anytime you want; in the other, you may feel trapped and frustrated.

So while the action is "they go to school/start traditional homeschooling," the attitude may be different than those who do those same actions by no choice of their own, if that makes any sense.

[bumpus7]

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I guess they could also get a GED and continue on.
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[nana053]

Originally Posted by bumpus7

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I guess they could also get a GED and continue on.
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Yes, they can do that. They also can take community college classes without a GED just as traditional high school students often do nowadays.

[tulani]

Originally Posted by YellowHorse

Not necessarily, I entered college before I got my GED (and never presented it to the college come to think of it), one of my siblings never got her GED, but has a college degree.
We didn't receive any grief for not having a diploma or GED and just took the college entrance exams and paid our tuition.

I stand corrected then.
Actually, I have seen that neither a diploma or GED is needed to enter college. Some colleges give their own entrance tests.
(I entered college at barely 17 1/2 years old. It struck me as funny when one fellow student actually stated "No one under 18 is allowed in a college". This was back in 1976. Even I knew that high school students often took college classes.)

Originally Posted by lkb0714

For homeschoolers, totally makes sense. For unschoolers, any transcript would be FRAUD.

Why? Do you seriously think that unschoolers never do any written work?

I can't really use my son as an example of 'normal' unschoolers because he has Asperger's and is unable to hold a job - even with his intelligence.
However, I DO have every piece of 'school' work (actual papers) that he has ever done; every essay, every story, every drawing. If he wanted to go to college I could pull these out and put together something that resembled a portfolio rather than a transcript. (After all, in this age of 'no child left behind', just what good is a number or letter grade?)

Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy

No it wouldn't be. We are very relaxed homeschoolers, definitely more on the "unschool" side than the "sit at a table and work for 6 hours per day side," for the most part, but I can absolutely translate their learning experiences into education-ese if necessary (they're 11 and 9). Also, by the time unschoolers are high school-aged, they're usually taking some actual courses (at home or not). Just like an adult might take a Spanish class or a computer class or a pottery class, unschooled kids/teens would do the same. Unschooled doesn't mean "doesn't learn anything." It means that they're able to follow the path that makes sense to them. If an unschooled teenager wanted to go to college, then he'd have to put in the work to take the requisite classes (or gaining the requisite knowledge through alternate means) during his high school years. If he didn't do it, then obviously he didn't really want to go to college or put forth the work necessary.

Exactly!

Originally Posted by nana053

Unschooled children don't get grades traditionally, but when they are older, they may take classes and get grades depending upon what they want to do.

Unschooling doesn't limit the kids. If the kids want to take classes even as young children, unschoolers will allow that.

Too many seem to think that unschooling means NO SCHOOLING. Classes, workshops, tutors are offered in just about any subject that children are interested in. Children take control of what they learn - beyond the basics.

Originally Posted by nana053

Yes, they can do that. They also can take community college classes without a GED just as traditional high school students often do nowadays.

I already stand corrected.
I had absolutely NO desire to go to college until I was a senior in high school. It was then that my Earth Science teacher told me I had what it takes to make it. I knew people that were taking college classes already - just forgot. (Hey give me a break... it's been way too many years since I was in high school.)

[Katiana]

College admission depends on the college. They all have different requirements.

[stepka]

I think of it as: unschooling is child-led and homeschooling is adult-led. Most homeschoolers do some kind of mix. In our case we bought a curriculum for math and spelling/English and then unschooled the rest. Of lot of our learning took place in conversations and books. We lived what I call a "learning lifestyle," meaning that I kept a lot of books and learning tools and a computer and we took lots of field trips, including the ultimate one of a RTW trip. One girl thrived on this lifestyle and didn't go back to HS until 10th grade and the other wanted to go back in 5th b/c she thrives on competition and it was always their choice. Almost always--my ex and I divorced so big girl had to go back to school.

[Wyndsong71]

Originally Posted by lkb0714

I'll take that bet, go look up "famous unschoolers". Lots of them have jobs, very middle of the road jobs, graphic designer, blogger, etc. Hardly "high paying jobs" in the least.

Unschoolers have done statistically worse on standardized tests, than both homeschoolers and traditionally educated chidlren.

Structured homeschooling gets an A+

People should not lump unschooling in with home schooling. They are night and day apart, and while quality home schooling can be incredibly successful, there is nothing that suggests the same will be true for unschooling, and lots of anecdotal areas of concern when it comes to things like undiagnosed learning disabilities.

You're not seriously trying to use the above link to "prove" your point are you? They studied 12 children who were "unschooled" and based their hypothesis on them. That's just ridiculous! You can't really make any point out of looking at ony 12 children and their scores...

Unschooling is just as good as traditional homeschooling. It's a different style that isn't as easy as it sounds, but it is just as good as traditional. I'd say it's more well rounded than your traditional homeschooling style because it gives the childn more room to grow and learn on their own. And it's easier for them to transition into College because they can study and learn on their own so much better.

The reality of it is, there aren't enough unschoolers to really make a good study of at this point. They are a sub-culture of a sub-culture. There's really only enough data on homeschoolers as a whole and no where near enough study on all the sub-cultures and styles to be able to point to anyone and say this way is better than that way.