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Old 09-25-2012, 06:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by lhpartridge View Post
They were not Left Behind.
In other words, social promotion at work.
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:30 AM
 
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Well, the education profession loves to shriek at NCLB, but what they refuse to acknowledge is why the NCLB came into being. After adjusting for inflation, education funding per student has doubled in this country since 1985, and yet the promised returns on our massive investment have been nonexistent. So, out of sheer desperation, NCLB was passed to introduce some accountability to the bloated educational bureaucracy.
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:33 AM
 
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Some interesting points in this thread.
I agree that the educational system is bloated. What I don't understand is where is the money going? It certainly isn't going to the teachers.
Standards are a good thing, obviously. However, the 'teach to the test' mentality is a very bad thing. What about critical thinking? Creativity? Imagination? Exploration? I would argue that these are just as important--if not more--than memorizing a mathematical equation or historical facts.
The more I learn about Montessori-style education, the more I support it. As an educational professional myself, I find the approach to be a positive step towards those descriptors I listed above. It is expensive to implement, as I am well-aware. There again I ask: Where is the money going?!
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:48 AM
 
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I have a friend who is a special education teacher who is currently working in a pilot program that involves co-teaching in a high school program for accelerated learning. She has students with learning disabilities who read on the 2nd to 4th grade levels in 9th grade. She is expected to keep them up with the advanced subject matter despite this. It seems insane to me, but that is the fact of her job. She's a wonderful teacher and is working hard to live up to the expectations, but I see some real problems down the line with this.

One reason that students are in high school with low reading levels (and this has always been the case) is that parents do not like the idea of a student of 15 to 17 being in the third grade with their children who are 7 or 8.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Well, the education profession loves to shriek at NCLB, but what they refuse to acknowledge is why the NCLB came into being. After adjusting for inflation, education funding per student has doubled in this country since 1985, and yet the promised returns on our massive investment have been nonexistent. So, out of sheer desperation, NCLB was passed to introduce some accountability to the bloated educational bureaucracy.
It's all well and good to glibly demean the shrieking education profession, but you don't make mention of some of the factors that have impacted those expenses, like IDEA and PL 94-142, not to mention societal and familial shifts in the last two generations. As implemented, NCLB has been woefully inadequate as a realistic tool to assess educational quality, and has only added to the bloated expenses of schools. Education as a whole would be in far better shape if it was left to real educators. We are on the road to McEducation, and NCLB and Race to the Top are hastening the trip.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
It's all well and good to glibly demean the shrieking education profession, but you don't make mention of some of the factors that have impacted those expenses, like IDEA and PL 94-142, not to mention societal and familial shifts in the last two generations. As implemented, NCLB has been woefully inadequate as a realistic tool to assess educational quality, and has only added to the bloated expenses of schools. Education as a whole would be in far better shape if it was left to real educators. We are on the road to McEducation, and NCLB and Race to the Top are hastening the trip.
Oh, good God. Are you so thin-skinned that some fair criticism of the education establishment in this country considered to be demeaning? Do you consider yourself so sacrosanct, have you been gulled by your own propaganda, that you cannot deign to explain the overall failure of educators to achieve any substantial improvement despite a doubling of funding?

Back in the eighties, educators galore were coming out of the woodwork and complaining about funding. Increased funding was going to make everything better. Computers in the classroom were going to make everything better. Better buildings were going to make everything better. So the country ponied up. We voted in bond issues, we increased budgets, and we did a score of other things.

Guess what we got for all that? Nada.

Oh, sure, there was a lot of activity. Lots of schools built. Lots of computers bought. Lots of people hired. But where it really mattered, where the rubber meets the road, the quality of the children's education has not improved one whit. So the country made a massive investment and you're complaining when we try to find a way, any way, to demand accountability.

Want us to take you seriously? Stop complaining about NCLB and Race To The Top. Instead, why don't you as a profession offer up a different plan? Why don't you say, "Okay, we screwed up. We asked you to spend a bunch of money and we didn't deliver, so here's how we're going to make amends." And then come up with a real plan, one where incompetent teachers are fired, where the curriculum makes sense, and where students are engaged, not just marking time in the classroom.

Because, to be completely truthful, education is the least innovative institution in American life today. It has over the years become far less about actually educating children and more about feeding the beast of a huge educational bureaucracy. We live in an age of ubiquitous knowledge, and yet the stupid and lazy progress through the system at the same pace as the smart and motivated. There are no rewards for accomplished kids, unless you count AP classes where you just pile on more homework.

Until you as a profession actually stop regurgitating all the tired pedagogical solutions to a changing world, until you as a profession don't look upon the kneejerk budget increase as the panacea, we're going to continue demanding accountability. And all your complaining won't change that.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
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THere is no such thing as 100% college ready. If you think you can get my student with a 50 FSIQ into college, show me how...

Just ask Diane Ravitch what she thinks about NCLB...she co-wrote it.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:22 AM
 
6,084 posts, read 6,041,094 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffpv View Post
What about critical thinking? Creativity? Imagination? Exploration? I would argue that these are just as important--if not more--than memorizing a mathematical equation or historical facts.
The more I learn about Montessori-style education, the more I support it. As an educational professional myself, I find the approach to be a positive step towards those descriptors I listed above.
This article might be of interest to you:

"
The Creativity Crisis:For the first time, research shows that American creativity is declining. What went wrong—and how we can fix it.
"
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:13 PM
 
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I agree with much of what cpg has said.

My oldest started school before NCLB reforms had hit our district. I have to say I was stunned at what went on(or didn't go on) in her first few years of school. When I did more research, I saw I wasn't the only one. Education was in trouble before NCLB arrived.

I'd agree that NCLB hasn't turned out as expected.

I also think that along with what cpg said, educators could come up with a different plan.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:17 PM
 
652 posts, read 1,052,457 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
It's all well and good to glibly demean the shrieking education profession, but you don't make mention of some of the factors that have impacted those expenses, like IDEA and PL 94-142, not to mention societal and familial shifts in the last two generations. As implemented, NCLB has been woefully inadequate as a realistic tool to assess educational quality, and has only added to the bloated expenses of schools. Education as a whole would be in far better shape if it was left to real educators. We are on the road to McEducation, and NCLB and Race to the Top are hastening the trip.
Who are real educators, as described in your post?

Would they be like the second grade teacher that my oldest kid, who regularly took three day weekends, bragged that she wouldn't teach math(students were to "discover" it) or wouldn't provide any feedback on written work.

Luckily, most of my kids' teachers don't fit this description. This woman is still teaching though.
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