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I think we are also ignoring some basics of human psychology.
People are not inherently great teachers, or inherently bad teachers but are people of varying effectiveness based on the context in which they are teaching. And that context can change.
The same way people are not innately "good" or "bad" but rather have personality traits which vary based on their situation and environment. Sort of like those "prison" experiments where self proclaimed pacifists where made prison guards and became violent, abusive, and downright not nice.
Most human traits are like that. Including teaching effectiveness. In the right situation anyone can be an effective teacher. In the wrong one anyone can be ineffective.
I have met janitors clearly in the wrong profession and CFOs in the wrong profession.
So what? The nature of any employment combined with human nature means there will always be a bell curve of ability to complete one's job. It is the Lake Wobegone effect. Everyone thinks they are great at their job, are above average intelligence, above average drivers, etc. When in reality most people are average at most things.
Same with teachers. Some of us are great, some of us suck, most of us are in the middle.
So what? Maybe you will understand so what when one of these "ineffective" or worse incompetent, teachers, janitors, CFO's or more importantly police officers, doctors or nurses affect somebody in your life.
In some cases being ineffective is of little consequence, in other cases it is of greater consequence.
And as mentioned in another post, there is a difference between ineffective and incompetent. I supposed I can live with 1 or 2 ineffective teachers along the path of my children's education. But incompetent does a lot more damage. And I'm afraid there are teachers that are even worse than simply incompetent.
Yes, incentives would be nice. Unfortunately, we all know that incentives usually cost money and that is one more of the many obstacle that we are dealing with in this mess.
In my opinion--and this is just what I believe--but I just don't think that we'll ever see an influx of superior candidates into the teaching profession without improving incentives. This is more of a macro look at the profession, but if you don't make the profession attractive to the top college students, then they will continue to pursue degrees in other fields. Some may make pit stops in the profession, like through programs such as TFA, but most of them won't be staying long term when they can make more money and be treated much better in another career. This will become an even bigger problem when the economy fully turns around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12
I do sometimes find it a bit frustrating when people answer a question with a question . Now that I shared my understanding of what incompetent is, are you willing to share your idea of what it means?
I don't really have a clear definition. I know it when I see it! I'm sorry, but that's part of the reason why I asked you in the first place, because I just don't know. I will say that I don't think it's an epidemic as some might have you believe and I don't think it can be determined by student scores on standardized tests.
I personally know 3 Teachers that I would not wish on my children so I know 3 who would be out of a job. The other teachers I know are wonderful and actually teach their students.
At a minimum, the good teachers you know wouldn't have to be undoing the damage done by the 3 bad teachers.
I can, honestly, say I had one bad teacher when I was in school but I'm not sure that she wasn't just bad for me. I cannot learn by rote. Never have been able to. I have to understand to do. I learn differently. I bloomed in college when they FINALLY expected me to do more than just regurgitate an answer. Perhaps, she was the best teacher in the world for someone else. I can't say. All I know is she did so much damage it was several years later before I'd even try (this was after two years in her class (4th and 5th grades). I would have survived one fairly unscathed but something inside me died the day she walked into the classroom that second year. I gave up. I didn't have a nother year of fight left in me.) She did a magic trick. She turned a straight A student who was described by her 3rd grade teacher as an intellectual sponge into a D- student who graduated from high school with a 1.67 GPA...Then went on to college to graduate #1 in her major. Go figure.
One problem here is your idea of a bad teacher and mine may be worlds apart. My dream teacher would have been one who explained things but never did examples. They would have let me struggle through it and figure it out on my own. I think most parents would call that a bad teacher.
This is more of a macro look at the profession, but if you don't make the profession attractive to the top college students, then they will continue to pursue degrees in other fields. Some may make pit stops in the profession, like through programs such as TFA, but most of them won't be staying long term when they can make more money and be treated much better in another career. This will become an even bigger problem when the economy fully turns around.
This is so true. The only thing that the current reformers can hope for is that the economy stays bad. As soon as things turn around, many, in the neediest areas especially, will leave. I teach mathematics. I expect to be out of a math class in two years.
If I were an administrator, there was, maybe, one teacher in my hallway (of ten) that I would have wanted to get rid of last year. He did not bully anyone, just had a great deal of difficulty controlling his class. Of course, most of his classes were 40 students. He did have more trouble than most. I really don't know about the rest of the school. There is another teacher that I know is questionable, but I do not know, for certain, as I have never observed him.
As far as I know, there are no "bully" teachers at my school with a staff of 77.
I, too, used to be an outsider who was critical of the teaching profession. I put my money were my mouth is and went back to school to become a teacher. After graduating, I got the education. I finally get it.
If you think you know so much about our profession and we are all just bitter old crones who don't want to be held accountable, go try subbing at an at-risk middle or high school. (How hard could it be?). You won't get a comprehensive view, but a good enough one.
I can, honestly, say I had one bad teacher when I was in school but I'm not sure that she wasn't just bad for me. I cannot learn by rote. Never have been able to. I have to understand to do. I learn differently. I bloomed in college when they FINALLY expected me to do more than just regurgitate an answer. Perhaps, she was the best teacher in the world for someone else. I can't say. All I know is she did so much damage it was several years later before I'd even try (this was after two years in her class (4th and 5th grades). I would have survived one fairly unscathed but something inside me died the day she walked into the classroom that second year. I gave up. I didn't have a nother year of fight left in me.) She did a magic trick. She turned a straight A student who was described by her 3rd grade teacher as an intellectual sponge into a D- student who graduated from high school with a 1.67 GPA...Then went on to college to graduate #1 in her major. Go figure.
One problem here is your idea of a bad teacher and mine may be worlds apart. My dream teacher would have been one who explained things but never did examples. They would have let me struggle through it and figure it out on my own. I think most parents would call that a bad teacher.
How did you get into college with a 1.67 GPA in high school?
So what? Maybe you will understand so what when one of these "ineffective" or worse incompetent, teachers, janitors, CFO's or more importantly police officers, doctors or nurses affect somebody in your life.
In some cases being ineffective is of little consequence, in other cases it is of greater consequence.
And as mentioned in another post, there is a difference between ineffective and incompetent. I supposed I can live with 1 or 2 ineffective teachers along the path of my children's education. But incompetent does a lot more damage. And I'm afraid there are teachers that are even worse than simply incompetent.
So What? Wow
I'll put this a different way. One of my jobs is placing outdoor warningsirens.
I have invented new procedures for this that have been adopted by industry and FEMA. I have developed techniques that are considered cutting edge. I have consulted (for free) on 2 of the 5 largest systems in the United States. I think I can safely say that there are very few people in the United States with my level of competence.
I am quite certain I have affected the lives in a negative way of far more people than a teacher ever teaches in their career. I have had hundreds, maybe thousands, of complaints about my work. I have had lawsuits threatened and my job threatened dozens of times.
So, am I competent or incompetent? If I am incompetent, is this a job where there is no such thing as a competent person?
To be on the safe side, I would say "two" across the US would be left! I had a son in regular education and one in special education and honestly, I never found a teacher that appeared to be competent not even the elementary teachers. My older son was extremely bright and correcting the teachers in elementary school. One day when he was in fourth grade, the teacher said "If you think you can do a better job than me, come on up to the front." When he stood up, she told him to sit back down. I pulled my son with developmental disabilities out of school and taught him myself. We lived in different cities and states and it was always the same. I'm going with "two" and that might still be high! I totally support competency testing in all areas taught! Some couldn't spell, many actually!
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