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Having been a teacher for many years, mentor teacher, administrator, I can tell you, other teachers, know who is a "good teacher" and who is not...If there was an anonymous poll in any school, for ranking of teachers, by other teachers, you would see the top ten and the bottom ten be pretty consistent. That would be a starting point...
Since you started the thread, how would you define incompetent?
I think there is a difference between "incompetent" and "ineffective."
The other piece of this equation--which obviously isn't the focus of this thread--is who would be replacing these "incompetent" or "ineffective" teachers? If the incentives aren't there to attract quality candidates into the field, simply firing tens of thousands of teachers isn't going to improve educational outcomes.
To me, an incompetent teacher is one who resorts to bullying and belittling their students (middle school). Also, a teacher who can't keep their kindergarten class under control. And one who allows their male teachers aid to bully her students. Also, a teacher who can't explain the subject they are supposed to be teaching. A teacher who things assigning homework without explaining the material to their students before sending them home and expecting their parents to be the teachers. I have no problem with homework being assigned in order to reinforce a lesson. I also don't have a problem expecting parents to play a supportive role in their children's education. I do have a problem with teachers who expect parents to be teachers.
Ineffective is another good word. An ineffective teacher fails to inspire his or her students. Fails to find a way to hold their attention and keep their interest. They may know the subject and can work well with the students who are easier to teach, but fail to help the children who are more challenging.
And although it may not be the "focus of this thread" I was thinking of that as I started the thread. Which is why I did ask the question "how many would be left" in the title I agree that if were were to fire all incompetent and ineffective teachers, there probably wouldn't be enough teachers left.
Yes, incentives would be nice. Unfortunately, we all know that incentives usually cost money and that is one more of the many obstacle that we are dealing with in this mess.
I do sometimes find it a bit frustrating when people answer a question with a question . Now that I shared my understanding of what incompetent is, are you willing to share your idea of what it means?
Who "stands up against accountability"? Nobody I know. Of course I should be held accountable for things I have control over. People stand up against being held accountable for things which are out of their control.
Nobody you know that would admit it.
I understand that it's not fair to measure a teachers effectiveness based on their students performance it certain cases. But I also know there are teachers who would not stand up to scrutiny of any kind.
Can you say that you've never met a teacher that was clearly in the wrong profession?
Having been a teacher for many years, mentor teacher, administrator, I can tell you, other teachers, know who is a "good teacher" and who is not...If there was an anonymous poll in any school, for ranking of teachers, by other teachers, you would see the top ten and the bottom ten be pretty consistent. That would be a starting point...
I just wanted to state that I think the idea that a person can just tell if a teacher is incompetent of not based on their personal view points to be ludicrous.
I am a very popular teacher, that fact states nothing about my effectiveness. So the majority of parents, and my former students would say I am an effective teacher, but that would be based on their personal experience. Meanwhile there are two maybe three students who say I am absolutely an incompetent teacher. One just this year fought tooth and nail to get out of my class because when I had her as a sophomore she did not get an A and blamed it one me. None of which proves one way or another whether or not I am an effective teacher.
Hell, it is hard for most teachers to know personally if they are effective. There are far too many variables to pick out how much value is added by me alone.
Having been a teacher for many years, mentor teacher, administrator, I can tell you, other teachers, know who is a "good teacher" and who is not...If there was an anonymous poll in any school, for ranking of teachers, by other teachers, you would see the top ten and the bottom ten be pretty consistent. That would be a starting point...
Again, how would they know?
I have no idea whether or not other teachers are effective or not based on just teaching in the same school. I can acknowledge that most of my opinions about their "teaching" are based on hearsay from students, and my personal opinion of them as people.
There is a teacher in my school who lectures for the entire 80 min period. To me this is ridiculous and I would consider that ineffective. OTOH, she usually has a few kids who ace the AP exam. Is that due to her skill, the kids innate abilities, or some combination of those along with a huge variety of other factors?
A list of popularity of teachers with each other would also overlap strongly with the list proposed above. Seems to me that the idea that teacher just magically know who is or is not particularly effective just ignores reality.
I understand that it's not fair to measure a teachers effectiveness based on their students performance it certain cases. But I also know there are teachers who would not stand up to scrutiny of any kind.
Can you say that you've never met a teacher that was clearly in the wrong profession?
I have met janitors clearly in the wrong profession and CFOs in the wrong profession.
So what? The nature of any employment combined with human nature means there will always be a bell curve of ability to complete one's job. It is the Lake Wobegone effect. Everyone thinks they are great at their job, are above average intelligence, above average drivers, etc. When in reality most people are average at most things.
Same with teachers. Some of us are great, some of us suck, most of us are in the middle.
Incompetent teachers should have been fired as they were found. That way, you'd have new people easily fill their spots.
If they wiped them all out now...
They'd be short staffed.
Ah, so please show me any field where due to the above method of dealing with incompetence there are literally NO incompetent people. Thank you.
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