Should the elite PUBLIC High Schools open themselves up to more Black, Hispanic and White Students

[bigjake54]

Teacher’s union backs bill to change admission policy for top high schools | New York Post
A new thread on this topic closed elsewhere, so I'll bump this discussion:
http://www.city-data.com/forum/new-y...c-schools.html
The 400-pound elephant in the room, is race. Whatever your opinion about the method used to choose students for NYC's elite high schools, the expressed goal of the mayor & now the union leader is to increase black & latino admissions. I don't know that Mulgrew speaks for his membership on this topic, especially the faculties at the elite HSs.
IMO, the success of Asian applicants is due to the fact that they have worked hard, to obtain the knowledge necessary to ace the exam. Not all Asians take the exam, or do well on it. But, there are certainly large numbers who, by sheer perspiration, if not inspiration, have scored well. Unfortunately, black & latino & white grammar school students have not availed themselves of the free tutoring programs. So, some want to change the process, and make it more subjective. Anyone who thinks that underperforming minority students will quickly fail and be jettisoned, does not know the litigious side of NYC's racial politics.

[HappyTexan]

So they didn't go to the free prep classes to prepare yet still want admission.
And because the minority students didn't pursue this the admission standards must be changed to let them in at their current performance levels.

I give it 5-10 years and those "elite" schools won't be elite anymore.

I grew up in NYC and getting admitted to one of those schools was major.
Only the best of the best went there.
It was like a school full of gifted and talented kids to give you an idea about who went to that school.

[HomeIsWhere...]

[quote=snooper;26711056] I was reading an interesting article about how a majority of the students getting into the elite PUBLIC High Schools in New York City (as well as elsewhere) are now mostly Asian. The main way the students can get into these schools- with their extremely challenging academics- is by scoring very highly in a standardized tests.

The Asian students who want to get into these elite High Schools will study 12-14 hours a day and take all kinds of prep classes to help them score high on the tests. FREE prep classes are available for Black and Hispanic students but they rarely enroll. Their advocates say they should be allowed to get into these elite PUBLIC High Schools based on their grades or teacher recommendations even if they score poorly on the entrance tests. Critics say that a good GPA or strong recommendations by teachers from a poor middle school does not really show they are strong enough students to survive the elite High School's academics. The percentage of students who are White is dropping also as many white students can't compete with the Asians who study 14 hours a day.

Critics say that if you let Non Asian students who score below the mean on the entrance tests they will have to lower academic standards and the elite students will suffer. But other critics say it is not fair to only let kids in who score well on the test. What do you think?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/27/ed...pagewanted=all[/ quote]

An 'elite' high school is 'elite' for a reason. They only want the very best there because then everyone is on the same page and swimming in the same direction...nothing to drag down their curriculum, higher core teaching, and well established criteria and advanced curriculum to produce the VERY BEST!

I see absolutely nothing wrong with this. If there is a higher population of students in the community who are unable to meet the standards then perhaps they should buckle down, study more, and simply pass muster. OR, they can create 'special schools' for those students where they can be educated and trained for an occupation which suits their 'work ethic, talents and abilities'...or lack thereof.

What is the point for mixing students with a talent and propensity for reaching higher with students who for all practical purposes consider merely getting out of bed and attending their classes the highest they are willing to reach for in order to contribute to their own education. Students who have 'special' needs (regardless of where on the scale those needs are) should be with like minded abilities, needs, and talent.

Originally Posted by HappyTexan

So you'll let in lower performing students who will struggle and end up failing all in the name of "diversity" ?
THIS^

These "elite" public schools are elite for one reason. The cream of the crop all go there.

If you want diversity, don't lower the standards at these schools. Instead go into the K-8 schools and raise the bar and bring those low performing students up 10 notches or so.

THIS^

Oh, I thought we were talking about education. Oh, I see, it's really about diversity for diversity's sake alone? I am 100% for inclusion AND diversity...as long as all can meet the criteria otherwise where will these students go to college, where will they work, how will they make successful lives and careers for themselves if the bar is always going to be lowered for their benefit to 'fit' in and be included?

It is not fair on either of the spectrum, regardless of the student population we're talking about. Meaning fair in terms of outcomes and success, not for the sake of exclusion or superiority.

I know how poorly these viewpoints may sound but I do know from personal experience the amount of work, dedication, and sacrifice it takes to bust ones behind to 'make the grade', both for students and their parents who are behind the scenes accommodating their children (when and where they are able to do so) to do what it takes to 'get 'er done' as my brother would say. In the end, I do not think there are any easy answers either way.