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Old 12-26-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
13,349 posts, read 16,514,328 times
Reputation: 19638

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Quote:
Originally Posted by willow wind View Post
Exactly, how do bullet proof vests protect against head shots or leg shots ripping femoral arteries, etc.

Maybe you want kids wrapped up in full body armor, including helmets and face masks

Martial arts- how is a six year old is expected to stop a deranged adult with an assault rifle ? Seriously?

There are no easy solutions. We could start by making it harder to enter schools, like no glass doors but maybe more solid metal doors that are not easily breached ; constantly monitored long range security cameras so people can be seen walking up to a school. Maybe monitored gates or entry ways far from the actual school doors ??

I'm sure school boards and police try hard and put their heads together they could come up with some things to try. Nothing is ever 100 % fool proof. But making it harder to enter so there is time to try to stop a nut case is what is needed.

Children need a calming, pleasant learning environment, not sitting in class in armor, in terror.
I think you're onto something there. How about we retrofit armored personnel carriers and turn them into mobile classrooms? Not only will the armor plating stop bullets dead, we can move these classrooms around to keep potential shooters confused in addition to circling the wagon to form perfect defensive perimeters. No need for bulletproof vests, ninjitsu training, attack dogs, and all that impractical stuff!
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:22 AM
 
31,385 posts, read 31,051,757 times
Reputation: 14878
Apparently, the OP has never seen a threat level III/IV vest WITH ceramic plates.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:26 AM
 
32,538 posts, read 29,325,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
1. The damage to our kids when we place them in an environment where they are constantly afraid would be incalculable.

2. All the training costs way more money than the taxpayers are willing to spend. So would bullet proof vests or any other protective clothing.

3. Teachers want to teach. None of us went into education to be prison guards. None of us went into education to be soldiers either.

4. It seems to me that children who are in these kinds of situations are more likely to have mental health issues and to become paranoid enough to take out other children.
This.

I was in elementary school in the era when the civil defense sirens went off once a month and we all practiced duck and cover drills. We all knew we were practicing in case a nuclear bomb was dropped on our heads. During the Cuban Missile Crisis that possibility was very real. After duck and cover drills they sent us out for recess because we were usually pretty keyed up from the thought of being annihilated by the Russians.

I cannot imagine subjecting little kids to putting on their bullet proof vests every morning and then expecting them to sit in class and actually learn something.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:37 AM
 
138 posts, read 207,303 times
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Instead of teacher carrying guns or wearing bulletproof vests why not just have more law enforcement at schools? Most already have SROs.
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Old 12-27-2012, 12:08 PM
 
12,637 posts, read 12,071,712 times
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Physical security is the best security. Many government and private sector buildings/factories have great physical security in place. With a proper physical security system in place, the Newtown shooter would have never gotten into the building, or would have had a difficult time getting in, which would allow time for response to the shooting. The point is to make the schools a hard target.
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Old 12-27-2012, 02:57 PM
 
4,155 posts, read 7,613,696 times
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Just a little a background I attended public schools system in mostly Southwest and Central Florida schools and most schools here were built in clusters. For example just about every elementary school I went to was built right next to a middle school and when I finally got to middle and high school, all 3 (elementary/middle/high) were right next to each other. The middle and high schools always had school resource officers and my high school had several unarmed security as well (so I've always been used to seeing law enforcement at school so no need for me to address that aspect).

The benefit to that model of course was that if anything happened at any of the schools, there was trained law enforcement officer and security on campus already. The drawbacks were a traffic mess during pick up/drop off and of course the potential for older kids being a bad influence on younger kids. But even with those drawbacks would it be a better idea to return to that model for student safety? I would think it would be cheaper than assigning individual officers to each school and much safer than allowing teachers to carry guns (even with training).
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Old 12-27-2012, 03:08 PM
 
15,743 posts, read 13,171,628 times
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How about we accept that life is precious, some things are out of our control, and make sure we make the most of each day, including helping our neighbors (and presumably getting them mental help when needed) because until guns go away, NOTHING will stop people with guns from targeting schools and children to make a statement.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:17 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,096,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oliviaharbor View Post
Pretty good idea but do the school have enough budget for the equipment? I suggest a more tight security and well trained personnel.
Get this, they are already selling bullet proof backpacks at $300 a pop. So willing parents would buy bullet proof backpacks or vests for their child if they wanted to have some extra protection for their child.
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Old 12-27-2012, 11:22 PM
 
3,259 posts, read 5,096,228 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Apparently, the OP has never seen a threat level III/IV vest WITH ceramic plates.
I may not have never seen a threat level III/IV vest but the technology keeps improving. I grew up in Compton, and I went to school in Compton, what happened in CT has been old news in places like Compton where students were getting shot, not by the dozens in one day in CT, but students were being shot by the dozens over a course of a decade.

I can tell you the shootings that happened at Compton High in the 80s while I was a student there, when we were in passing period, or how a good friend of mine was shot during PE classes. So not to make this political or racial, but when shootings were the norm in inner city ghetto areas like Compton, us poor and citizens of those areas had to deal with it and hope that we would not get shot at school while the rest of the world ignored it or simply didn't care because it wasn't in their neighborhood.
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Old 12-28-2012, 08:21 AM
 
12,637 posts, read 12,071,712 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antredd View Post
I may not have never seen a threat level III/IV vest but...
Ok, I suggest you go take a gander at a vest with the ballistic plates, and wear one for six hours. You will then rethink your idea about having everyone wear one. I will bet most kids could not even sit straight wearing one, let alone get up and walk around as these things weight as much or more than kids. Also, they are not bullet "proof", but bullet "resistant"; and this just protects center of mass, does not provide protection for the head and lower body areas.
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