U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-06-2013, 08:58 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,241,935 times
Reputation: 2370

Advertisements

Not that we didn't already know this, but how can charter schools be the solution if they're not willing to educate all-comers (not just those with behavioral issues, but also those with all other special needs and language issues)?

D.C. charter schools expel students at far higher rates than traditional public schools - The Washington Post
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-06-2013, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,108 posts, read 4,658,992 times
Reputation: 5389
I am all for tough love, but how about some consequences for the charter schools who dump these "behavioral problems" onto the regular schools.

In Colorado, each school is given a set amount of money (around $6500) for each student enrolled in that school as of a certain date (October 1). If that student leaves the school or is expelled, the school still keeps the money. What if this process changed? Expel a kid, return a pro-rated amount of money to the state, which then gives it the next school the student is enrolled in.

I guarantee that while the YouthBuild school in the article expelled 1/3 of their students, the school did not lose 1/3 of their pupil funding. It seems that these schools have an incentive to build up their early enrollments, then cut the biggest problems loose while keeping the taxpayer money they received for educating that student. It would be interested in seeing how many students were behavioral problems and expelled before the school received the money from the state.

Last edited by davidv; 01-06-2013 at 09:59 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 11:28 AM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,241,935 times
Reputation: 2370
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
I am all for tough love, but how about some consequences for the charter schools who dump these "behavioral problems" onto the regular schools.

In Colorado, each school is given a set amount of money (around $6500) for each student enrolled in that school as of a certain date (October 1). If that student leaves the school or is expelled, the school still keeps the money. What if this process changed? Expel a kid, return a pro-rated amount of money to the state, which then gives it the next school the student is enrolled in.

I guarantee that while the YouthBuild school in the article expelled 1/3 of their students, the school did not lose 1/3 of their pupil funding. It seems that these schools have an incentive to build up their early enrollments, then cut the biggest problems loose while keeping the taxpayer money they received for educating that student. It would be interested in seeing how many students were behavioral problems and expelled before the school received the money from the state.
That's right...so many reformers want "money to follow the students," so I have to assume that they would agree with your solution.

The other thing that the piece only briefly touches on the way that many students are "counseled out" of charter schools as opposed to being expelled. The number of expulsions only tell part of the story of attrition regularly occurring at charter schools.

This attrition rate is important because I think it is at the core of what makes many charter schools appear to be successful (although the truth is that a great deal many charter schools are not successful). So while things like "innovation," or "freedom," or "lack of teachers unions" are touted as some of the reasons why some charter schools appear to succeed, what it really boils down to is that most of them are just cherry-picking their students, either to create a better educational environment and/or to keep around those student that already are likely to succeed anyways as a way to boost school test scores. It's a nice little racket, particularly for those charter school operators that are lining their pockets with this scheme, but it's only improving educational outcomes marginally, if that. However what it's really doing is creating even more segregation in urban school systems that are already grossly segregated.

If there's going to be a multi-tiered system of urban schools based around schools selecting their student body based on prior ability and behavior then there's little reason as to why we would need charter schools (and their for-profit operators) to achieve such means.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 01:09 PM
 
20,793 posts, read 52,354,094 times
Reputation: 10471
Charter schools around here are horrible to begin with, most are full of kids that can't behave in traditional schools. I would never send my child to a charter school, but then again, I wouldn't send my kids to DC Public schools either.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
5,409 posts, read 9,556,810 times
Reputation: 8577
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post

In Colorado, each school is given a set amount of money (around $6500) for each student enrolled in that school as of a certain date (October 1). If that student leaves the school or is expelled, the school still keeps the money.
That's insanity. They're practically begging for these schools to game the system.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 01:49 PM
 
3,283 posts, read 5,241,935 times
Reputation: 2370
Quote:
Originally Posted by maf763 View Post
That's insanity. They're practically begging for these schools to game the system.
That's the way it is in Ohio, too. It's just laziness on the part of the ODE because it would actually require some extra effort to fairly appropriate funds based on where a student is actually attending school at any given point in the year. It's much easier to just use the attendance count from one week in October.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 03:57 PM
 
Location: San Marcos, TX
2,572 posts, read 6,258,861 times
Reputation: 3999
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
Charter schools around here are horrible to begin with, most are full of kids that can't behave in traditional schools. I would never send my child to a charter school, but then again, I wouldn't send my kids to DC Public schools either.
Yes, this.

My children attend a charter school that had a great philosophy and mission statement in the beginning. They were supposed to be providing a private school type of environment with integration of the arts, instruction about other cultures, a focus on creative thinking, blah blah.

It has gone horribly downhill and part of the problem is the admission of so many kids who have been kicked out of every other possible public school and other charter schools in the area and this is their last chance. All of the focus is now on how to get these kids to pass the state tests and there isn't much in the way of resources for all of the other programs they initially promised. I am frustrated because I live in an inner city district with poor performing public schools and no money for private school, so I will most likely have to move and pay higher housing costs to solve the issue. I'd hoped the charter school would be the answer but it has not turned out that way.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-06-2013, 07:15 PM
 
15,287 posts, read 16,828,849 times
Reputation: 15019
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabride View Post
Yes, this.

My children attend a charter school that had a great philosophy and mission statement in the beginning. They were supposed to be providing a private school type of environment with integration of the arts, instruction about other cultures, a focus on creative thinking, blah blah.

It has gone horribly downhill and part of the problem is the admission of so many kids who have been kicked out of every other possible public school and other charter schools in the area and this is their last chance. All of the focus is now on how to get these kids to pass the state tests and there isn't much in the way of resources for all of the other programs they initially promised. I am frustrated because I live in an inner city district with poor performing public schools and no money for private school, so I will most likely have to move and pay higher housing costs to solve the issue. I'd hoped the charter school would be the answer but it has not turned out that way.
Philosophy and mission statement do NOT make a good school. It's nice window dressing, but unless the school actually has teachers who can implement the mission, it doesn't work. Often charter schools have uncertified teachers and teachers who are just beginning because they can be paid much less. They also often have policies that do not lead to implementation of their mission statement when all is said and done.

There are many public schools that have lovely philosophies and mission statements. Some actually implement these and others do not do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2013, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,673 posts, read 3,251,579 times
Reputation: 6508
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabride View Post
I am frustrated because I live in an inner city district with poor performing public schools and no money for private school, so I will most likely have to move and pay higher housing costs to solve the issue. I'd hoped the charter school would be the answer but it has not turned out that way.
Why not see if your local Catholic schools have tuition assistance available?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-08-2013, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
84,960 posts, read 98,776,620 times
Reputation: 31371
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabride View Post
Yes, this.

My children attend a charter school that had a great philosophy and mission statement in the beginning. They were supposed to be providing a private school type of environment with integration of the arts, instruction about other cultures, a focus on creative thinking, blah blah.

It has gone horribly downhill and part of the problem is the admission of so many kids who have been kicked out of every other possible public school and other charter schools in the area and this is their last chance. All of the focus is now on how to get these kids to pass the state tests and there isn't much in the way of resources for all of the other programs they initially promised. I am frustrated because I live in an inner city district with poor performing public schools and no money for private school, so I will most likely have to move and pay higher housing costs to solve the issue. I'd hoped the charter school would be the answer but it has not turned out that way.
Can you open enroll your child in another public school? I don't know TX law on this.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top