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Old 02-15-2013, 11:14 AM
 
Location: New Hampshire
1,137 posts, read 1,393,242 times
Reputation: 1236

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Well isn't it?

Anyone who isn't a teachers' union hack can read the writing on the wall.

Who are you going to believe, the teachers' unions or your lyin eyes?

 
Old 02-15-2013, 12:52 PM
 
13,248 posts, read 33,367,912 times
Reputation: 8098
Is there a question in there or do you just want to declare (on the education forum, no less) that the teachers union generally wants the most for it's members? I think all unions want that, don't they?
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Long Neck,De
4,792 posts, read 8,150,573 times
Reputation: 4839
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
Is there a question in there or do you just want to declare (on the education forum, no less) that the teachers union generally wants the most for it's members? I think all unions want that, don't they?
Sounds like someones kid got kept after school.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,148,425 times
Reputation: 27718
Absolutely not. If that were the case then all those students in right to work states would be soaring in test scores compared to union states.

As it is NO school district anywhere in the US is going to be able to meet NCLB 100% passing next year and that's why they are all getting waivers and moving over to RTT.

It is NOT teacher unions.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Paradise
3,663 posts, read 5,649,840 times
Reputation: 4865
I am a teacher in a right-to-work state and I chose to not be in the union. I'm also conservative. When I became a teacher, I really thought I was going to shake things up with my love of math, young people, and strong work ethic.

I'm the one who got the education.

If I were in the union, however, I would expect them them to advocate for my salary and benefits. That is their job. I advocate for the student; that is my job. Quite honestly, I would have more respect for them if they would quit using the "doing it for the kids" mantra.

And Clevelander is correct. The countries with the strongest teacher's unions score the highest on the international tests for math and science.

Put your money where your mouth is. Go teach at an inner city, at-risk school. Not PE either; teach math.

I dare you. I double dare you.

This is my second career, so I have worked in the 'real world'. I have seen this job bring retired military men and ex-cops to their knees.
 
Old 02-15-2013, 10:40 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,711 posts, read 3,586,647 times
Reputation: 1759
Colorado is not only a non-tenure state, but it is also a fully school choice state and very weak unions. That means that any child that lives in any part of the state could theoretically attend school in any other part of the state. So I could try to find the "best" school in the state and send my daughter there if I decided to provide the transportation for her as long as there is space for her. One would think that Colorado would then have the highest test scores because all of the schools compete against one another for the most education dollars from the state. Amazingly, our test scores mimic the scores of every state. Where places that have low poverty, high parent involvement, have high test scores while school with high poverty and low parental involvement have poor test scores. Shocking I know!

What this has caused though is the creation of sham schools that are under the umbrella of charter schools (which in general don't have unions). Some charters are excellent with great curricula and serve their students well. Others are not, especially the online schools. There was an extensive report on online schools in Colorado a year or so ago. In Colorado, there is a SINGLE day of the school year where students are counted for state funding, the more students you have on that date the more funds the school receives. It was interesting to note in this article that there is a high attrition rate from students in online schools after "Count day." What was even worse was that those students who "attended" online schools fell far behind their peers in every peer group.

For example, high risk students in a traditional school made more gains in that traditional school (even the poor ones) than high risk students in the best online schools.

Last edited by captain_hug99; 02-15-2013 at 10:54 PM..
 
Old 02-16-2013, 07:54 AM
 
3,281 posts, read 6,248,764 times
Reputation: 2416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post
Quite honestly, I would have more respect for them if they would quit using the "doing it for the kids" mantra.
Teachers do it for the kids, and unions do it for the teachers. There's not much daylight between the two. Of course not everything that unions advocate for is in the best interests of the kids, but most is, even if the intent was for the teachers' first. Small classrooms with healthy environments, rules that don't overwork teachers, good compensation (so teachers don't have to work a second job and can focus on teaching), good health insurance (so that they can see a doctor when sick and quickly return to work), etc. all of these things benefit teachers first, of course, but students directly or indirectly benefit, as well. It's often-repeated, though not an exaggeration, that a teacher's work environment is a student's learning environment.

And that's to say nothing of all of the things that unions fight for to continue to make the profession attractive. Occasionally some will argue that the talent pool of teachers is not as strong as it is in other professions. Whether that's currently true or not, if you eliminate unions and all of the things that they do keep teaching a viable profession, then you're going to find that even fewer of this country's best and brightest will choose to go into teaching.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 08:23 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,060,377 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by declan's dad View Post
well isn't it?

Anyone who isn't a teachers' union hack can read the writing on the wall.

Who are you going to believe, the teachers' unions or your lyin eyes?


roflmao.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 08:25 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,060,377 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdeen View Post

Quite honestly, I would have more respect for them if they would quit using the "doing it for the kids" mantra.

This is the quote Admin is always using to get teachers to take pay cuts, longer days and take on extra curricula activities for FREE.
 
Old 02-16-2013, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Cold Springs, NV
4,615 posts, read 12,219,985 times
Reputation: 5208
I taught full time Carpentry apprenticeship for 5 years, and gained a small insight into this system. Less than 20% completed apprenticeship and maintained full gainful employment. Was it my fault as an instructor that this occurred, or was it the students life skills, and or lack of that lead to such a low graduation rate? These students would come to class for one full week 4 times a year, and a majority had been laid off and weren't working and some tried to stay in the program as long as possible. This was my experience in secondary education where at least some wanted to be there.
I see teachers unions as protecting the interests of teachers, but also as former teachers who still care about the education system. Earlier this year, there was a strike in Chicago. It is my understanding that the current Secretary of Education (under Obama who never taught in the classroom) feels that teachers can be evaluated by student scores. With my little exposure to the system I know this cannot be done. You could have a really good teacher in an impoverished school with low scores, and a poor teacher in a well to do school be rewarded for really what are efforts of the students and parental support. Teachers should be evaluated through several individual evaluations measuring numerous different modalities being applied.
Teachers need support, and protection of their union. The education level and time of involvement to be a teacher at typically a low wage job amazes me. A police officer, or a firefighter with a much lower education requirement typically makes way more money, and when all is said and done really doesn't work many more hours. When I retired from the Carpenters I applied for a position at a high school as a construction technology instructor. When I found out there was no written curriculum, and I was expected to create and implement it for a paltry sum I lost interest. Our system of education will improve when our gang banger thug part of our society is no longer glorified. Teachers cannot be held accountable for life lessons instilled by improper upbringing.

Last edited by toobusytoday; 02-16-2013 at 11:44 AM.. Reason: removed the trolling sentence
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