Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
One reason kids dont speak as well, in my opinion, is that a lot of schools have done away with any emphasis on oral presentations (decalmations if you want a $10 word for it) throughout the K-12 system. I think its increasingly rare for kids to have to recite The Raven or a Hamlet soliloquy, read out loud the Gettysburg Address or Preamble to the Constitution, or something similar -- AND GET GRADED ON IT! Such exercises help with diction and comprtment as well as understanding specific material. In short, it helps kids learn how to talk correctly, that doing so is important, and that they can do it in front of people. This also holds true I think if the presentation is in German, Latin, French or some other (second) language.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree
Strongly agree. Elocution went the way of the dodo long ago.
Maybe it is because the older generation (the one in charge right now and complaining about the way children speak) decided that everything taught in a school must be able to be evaluated on some form of a standardized test.
Or maybe it is because we gave the children their electronic communication devices and limited the number of phone calls they could make and the number of characters they could use in their texts.
It's typical of people that age. It's happened for decades. Each older generation is certain the young ones are headed for oblivion because they use slang, annoying vocal tricks or modified syntax.
Has our society not progressed one whit since teens of the '50s said "swell" and "daddy-o"?
It's not the end of the world.
It's not "pearl clutching". No one said it's the end of the world.
It's annoying, though, and in some cases, bad manners.
There are a lot of interesting insights in these posts and I know I need to be patient, as techies are with me when I'm learning a new gadget. But I suspect there is both mental laziness and a lack of training involved when fully fledged adults speak at a middle-school level. I agree that modern technology is impeding the training part. I used to have so many long phone conversations with friends and classes that required me to articulate my thoughts in a coherent manner. Hard to believe this is going by the wayside nowadays.
I'm relieved to see this phenomena is not exclusive to N. America. I remember when I was a teen , we would use slang , a firecracker English teacher would jump down our throats with haste. I can recall many language lessons , albeit some have been overshadowed by day to day adult life. I don't associate with teens , save for my sister , and I try to keep her under my proverbial wing as much as possible. The more things change , the more they remain the same , or so it seems. Occasionally , I'll find myself using colloquialisms from my youth , such as 'def', 'fresh' , et al. in informal settings. In business mode , or approaching others due to necessity , I speak proper English , sometimes even the Queen's English. I guess I too am just maturing mentally , suffice it to say , while some of my peers/counterparts in humanity are not. Now that I think about it , alot of it has roots in the media , even on the news , there are hideous spelling errors on the teleprompters , and in the graphics. It is becoming a new and disturbing norm to speak gibberish.
There is, however, a relatively recent phenomenon taking place. It's called Political Correctness And Sensitivity, and it is militating against advanced enlightenment.
Children who come to school and express themselves in a non-mainstream manner have to be allowed to do so, in the name of "diversity", which is nowadays perceived as having a higher value than "correctness or "propriety".
Case in point: 50 years ago, dictionaries used to list pronunciations and spellings and usages in order of "correctness". They no longer do. Diversity Police have browbeaten Merriam Webster, and instructed them that word pronunciations are not to be construed as more or less preferable, but all variations are "correct", so that children whose parents said things like "sho nuff" are to be praised for celebrating their diversity and enriching the American fabric of expression. It is no longer permissible to threaten a child's self esteem by pointing out in the classroom that his family's cultural coloration of the language is somehow substandard, just because it is not in conformity with classical scholarship..
YES they are losing their ability not only to speak but to communicate fully. Between slang and texting it's a disaster. Perfect example can be seen with average black youth...who can barely communicate and always end a phrase with "you know what I'm sayin?" NO- I don't know what you are saying.
There is, however, a relatively recent phenomenon taking place. It's called Political Correctness And Sensitivity, and it is militating against advanced enlightenment.
Children who come to school and express themselves in a non-mainstream manner have to be allowed to do so, in the name of "diversity", which is nowadays perceived as having a higher value than "correctness or "propriety".
Case in point: 50 years ago, dictionaries used to list pronunciations and spellings and usages in order of "correctness". They no longer do. Diversity Police have browbeaten Merriam Webster, and instructed them that word pronunciations are not to be construed as more or less preferable, but all variations are "correct", so that children whose parents said things like "sho nuff" are to be praised for celebrating their diversity and enriching the American fabric of expression. It is no longer permissible to threaten a child's self esteem by pointing out in the classroom that his family's cultural coloration of the language is somehow substandard, just because it is not in conformity with classical scholarship..
This is pure ideological bulls**t, the like of which I'm not surprised to see coming from a poster in Texas--the state where school districts have tried to ram down the throats of kids the idea that evolution is some random unproven theory, that separation of church and state is just a recent invention of liberals who hate God, and that managed to embarass itself in front of the entire nation by insisting on a highly conservative, historically inaccurate take on many historical events in its textbooks.
Most schools and teachers will NOT celebrate poor, non-standard English nor use it to "celebrate" a student's ethnic heritage. Most schools and teachers are will NEVER say that non-standrad English, spoken or written, is correct. (It's one of the few things we can thank the standardized testing craze for). Most schools and teachers DO know how tell the difference between celebrating diversity and teaching kids how to spell.
That anyone can believe the opposite is proof only that they have not been in very many schools at all, or that they are living out the wet dreams of Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly.
Last edited by citylove101; 04-05-2013 at 10:06 AM..
This is pure ideological bulls**t, the like of which I'm not surprised to see coming from a poster in Texas--the state where school districts have tried to ram down the throats of kids the idea that evolution is some random unproven theory, that separation of church and state is just a recent invention of liberals who hate God, and that managed to embarass itself in front of the entire nation by insisting on a highly conservative, historically inaccurate take on many historical events in its textbooks.
Most schools and teachers will NOT celebrate poor, non-standard English nor use it to "celebrate" a student's ethnic heritage. Most schools and teachers are will NEVER say that non-standrad English, spoken or written, is correct. (It's one of the few things we can thank the standardized testing craze for). Most schools and teachers DO know how tell the difference between celebrating diversity and teaching kids how to spell.
That anyone can believe the opposite is proof only that they have not been in very many schools at all, or that they are living out the wet dreams of Sean Hannity and Bill O'Reilly.
Your first post is this thread was quite good, but why the rabid attack on this poster. He/she made some valid points. Why on earth did your post devolve into a slobbering tirade on ALL Texans and tie it in to your obvious dislike for FOX News entertainers?
One reason kids dont speak as well, in my opinion, is that a lot of schools have done away with any emphasis on oral presentations (decalmations if you want a $10 word for it) throughout the K-12 system. I think its increasingly rare for kids to have to recite The Raven or a Hamlet soliloquy, read out loud the Gettysburg Address or Preamble to the Constitution, or something similar -- AND GET GRADED ON IT! Such exercises help with diction and comprtment as well as understanding specific material. In short, it helps kids learn how to talk correctly, that doing so is important, and that they can do it in front of people. This also holds true I think if the presentation is in German, Latin, French or some other (second) language.
It's all been dumbed down so that every kid go to college even though they are not college material. It's just assumed that everyone will go to college, qualified or not. When they get to college they can take remedial English or remedial math---which means they shouldn't be in college in the first place.
It's an education mill and it doesn't matter that they can't spell or write a complete sentence so that someone else can understand it. They're just pushed through the system, competent or not. Probably the only ones who are still getting a good education are the elite who can afford to go to high end private schools. They will end up being the ruling class (even more than they ever were) because the rest of their peers can't even make themselves understood in writing or speech.
I imagine there are a number of reasons for this, as other posters have pointed out: technology degrading face-to-face social skills, lack of exposure to eloquent expression, youth-centric media, etc. But of course, cultural norms play a big role.
I've heard in France, for example, children are raised to be good conversationalists. As I understand it, there's little of the American tendency to fawn little Johnny's every childish statement at the dinner table (done here to boost his self esteem, no doubt); French parents will frankly tell the child, "You're being boring; think of something more interesting to say."
Once when I was teaching at an academic secondary school in the Czech Republic, a colleague (a bit of a language fiend who lamented the degradation of the native language by her own teen charges) made the mistake of inviting a visiting American girl to speak in an assembly on the topic My Impressions of Your Country. Of course the "presentation" was a predictably awkward display of gum-chewing inanity about how "Everything, here, is, like, a lot cheaper than in America." My colleague was mortified, as she had expected the American (I think unfairly) to rise to the occasion. Not to make fun of the poor kid, but European youth on the whole do seem better able to deliver to their target audience!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
