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Old 04-13-2013, 11:33 PM
 
Location: Warren, OH
2,744 posts, read 4,233,451 times
Reputation: 6503

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
It might be more appropriate in College where the students are more mature, educated and can actually think "critically". But to give this to 15 year olds is not appropriate.

1/3 refused to do the assignment out of 3 classes. Good, but the other 2/3's happily went to work on it.
I'm glad the school removed the teacher and is taking it seriously enough to consider disciplinary charges.

Having students write why "Jews are evil" is wrong no matter what class this occurred in.
happen to agree. No good can come of this. Really inappropriate for 15 year olds.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
844 posts, read 1,657,323 times
Reputation: 515
There's nothing wrong with the teacher.
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:35 AM
 
Location: Twin Cities
5,831 posts, read 7,709,541 times
Reputation: 8867
The teacher was clearly looking for a topic that no one would naturally support but wasn't aware enough to avoid one of our taboos.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Live in NY, work in CT
11,296 posts, read 18,882,521 times
Reputation: 5126
Here's my take on it, and this is from the perspective of:

A) Someone who works in a high school

B) Is Jewish

C) Had a parent who left Europe as a kid with his family during the Holocaust.



1) I honestly don't think this teacher had a "political" agenda or is anti-Semitic. I think he or she had what could actually be a good idea in a college classroom or even perhaps an AP class (many debate team coaches train their students by challenging them to debate something that is opposite their personal views (i.e. if they are pro-choice debate the pro-life position) or even something they might find repulsive). This kind of thing is what I think the teacher had in mind.

2) That said, I think what could of come from this is too many (not the majority, but too many) would see an assignment like this as fuel to cause trouble. Whether they truly know about it or are just being immature, think of all the incidents of general bullying (like that poor girl whose sexual assault was posted online and she committed suicide over it) or of bored teens spraying swastikas on synagogues, etc., not because they really know or actually "hate Jews" but because they know enough to at least know it will get them attention and **** people off.

This kind of assignment is just going to goad that kind of behavior and that's where I think it was wrong. Albany is not NY City, but it has a decent sized Jewish population and I could see Jewish students getting bullied, etc. not because the kids doing the assignment are truly bigots, but because again it will just goad immature behavior. Or if the students dislike a teacher they know is Jewish, do dumb things like Nazi salutes again not because they believe in it but because they want to **** the teacher off and really "get their goat". Same deal regarding bullying of black students/teachers if the assignment was to take on the perspective of the slave owner, etc.

3) However, I will say that the FL student (and 4th grade?) being told to write about giving up rights for safety is "political" and quite wrong, and while I don't think the person writing a math question about "whipping slaves" had an agenda, it's equally stupid (again especially at that grade level), there's no real educational purpose to it. I remember having a very "political" 4th grade teacher (he would inject heavy "environmentalism" into everything, talk about what a bad President Nixon was (this was a couple of years after Watergate, etc.)) and I was very uncomfortable with that (BTW, my personal politics are center-left so I'm not simply looking back at it now with say a conservative lens, though my folks, while more left than right, kind of liked Nixon FWIW).

Going back to the incident, I think the teacher was wrong and needs to be disciplined, but I'm not sure sensitivity training and assemblies for all are really needed unless administration thinks the project got far enough that it will encourage bullying and other stupid incidents.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Chapel Hill, N.C.
36,499 posts, read 54,071,612 times
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The subject of Nazis is not taboo. Of course this period in the world's history should be studied but the way this teacher tried to teach it is taboo-not the subject. I'm sure thousands of teachers all over the world teach this subject successfully throughout the world and in high school without asking the students to write on "how Jews are evil".
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Live in NY, work in CT
11,296 posts, read 18,882,521 times
Reputation: 5126
Quote:
Originally Posted by no kudzu View Post
The subject of Nazis is not taboo. Of course this period in the world's history should be studied but the way this teacher tried to teach it is taboo-not the subject. I'm sure thousands of teachers all over the world teach this subject successfully throughout the world and in high school without asking the students to write on "how Jews are evil".
They just taught it in my son's 6th grade class and there was no problems.....as you said, because of the way it is taught......
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:28 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,464,288 times
Reputation: 27720
Imagine if the period being studied were the Civil War and the Essay topic was to take the view of a Southerner and write an Essay on slaves and convince a Northerner that Blacks don't count as people.

The school would be shut down over that one.
But you have folks here ok with writing about how "Jews are evil".

No child should EVER be put in a position to think like a bigot or racist and convince someone your thinking is right.
Note I said "child".
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:46 AM
 
1,428 posts, read 3,161,318 times
Reputation: 1475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
I read the actual assignment sheet on line and IMHO I felt there was no malice intended. As with some of the OP I felt the topic could have proved to be a great debate and made the students really look at the horrors that were suffered with a conclusion including brain-washing and fear.

Perhaps the actual assignment could have been worded differently which would have less a newsworthy topic. It was also my understanding she/he was challenging their thinking and skills.
About 99% of the problem here was her use of the word "you," as in "Imagine you were..." Had she put the assignment in a more objective fashion and tried less hard to be kre8ive with the idea of a persuasive essay, it might have been far less newsworthy.

For example: "Many Germans of the 1930s believed (or were encouraged to believe) that the Jewish people were the source of Germany's serious economic and political problems following the country's defeat in WWI. After reviewing the contemporary documents and examples of propaganda provided for you in the packet, write a brief argumentative composition in which you argue for or against eliminating a university position for everyone but those of Aryan descent. Your argument will consist of an initial claim, a counterclaim in which you fairly consider the other side, and a rebuttal. You may choose either side of the issue."

That's still not a great assignment, and even in my hypothetical rewrite, my teacherly alarm bells are going off because I'm basically providing a class-sanctioned outlet for some students' anti-Semitism. Hey, students can believe what they want -- it's a free country -- but I don't necessarily find it appropriate to provide an outlet for them to do so. This is one she should've run by her department head, IMHO.
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:50 AM
 
16,825 posts, read 17,728,104 times
Reputation: 20852
The more I think about the assignment the less issues I have with it and even the age group it was targeted at.

The Nazis deliberately targeted children of this age group with their propaganda to be sucked into the Hitler Youth. Those children were not evil, but they did evil things. If an assignment like this had made those kids aware of how contrived propaganda is, maybe they wouldn't have been taken in when it was targeted at them.

And this was not a history teacher, but an English teacher. It is an incredibly valuable lesson, one many adults still don't have mastered, to be able to realize when you are being manipulated by propaganda.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warren zee View Post
happen to agree. No good can come of this. Really inappropriate for 15 year olds.
To think? At what age should schools start teaching children to think for themselves, instead of parrot what they are told?

How on earth do we defend ourselves against enemies, if we refuse to wonder what motivates them to be opposed to what we defend? And, indeed, punish those who dare to wonder or encourage others to wonder.
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