Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-18-2013, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720

Advertisements

Declining test scores on PISA over the past 10 years should be proof enough that current methodologies aren't working.
Instead we prefer bracelets that detect mood.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-18-2013, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,540,621 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Declining test scores on PISA over the past 10 years should be proof enough that current methodologies aren't working.
Instead we prefer bracelets that detect mood.
Unfortunately, student lack of engagement is being blamed on teachers instead of students. I don't know about you, but I can't compete with social media. The amount of time I spend policing cell phone usage or students being on non school related sites when we go to the computer lab is rediculous. I would so love to have cell phones blocked in the schools. It would be one less distraction for students.

The anxiety these kids feel when they cannot answer that text is insane. It's all they can think of when that little chime goes off to indicate someone sent them something. I wonder if they'll have the same problem when they have jobs?

I'm thinking we need bracelets....electric ones the teacher controls....a little aversion therapy goes a long way...

I predict test scores will continue to decline until we figure out that the thing that is missing in education is students taking responsibility for their own educations. My parents would never have blamed my day dreaming on my teacher being boring. They blamed it on me and told me to pay attention.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Unfortunately, student lack of engagement is being blamed on teachers instead of students. I don't know about you, but I can't compete with social media. The amount of time I spend policing cell phone usage or students being on non school related sites when we go to the computer lab is rediculous. I would so love to have cell phones blocked in the schools. It would be one less distraction for students.

The anxiety these kids feel when they cannot answer that text is insane. It's all they can think of when that little chime goes off to indicate someone sent them something. I wonder if they'll have the same problem when they have jobs?

I'm thinking we need bracelets....electric ones the teacher controls....a little aversion therapy goes a long way...

I predict test scores will continue to decline until we figure out that the thing that is missing in education is students taking responsibility for their own educations. My parents would never have blamed my day dreaming on my teacher being boring. They blamed it on me and told me to pay attention.
None of us can. The best we can do is take it up, tell them to put it up or tell them to get back to their work. Rinse and repeat.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 01:48 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,916,488 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Declining test scores on PISA over the past 10 years should be proof enough that current methodologies aren't working.
Instead we prefer bracelets that detect mood.
Note that some of the analysis is completely contrary to what people *believe* about our schools. Tracking makes the gap wider. Private schools are not better. Repeating grades does not work. Integration of lower socio-economic (read minority) students with affluent classmates does help. Headstart and other quality preschool programs DO work.

The Answer Sheet - What international test scores really tell us: Lessons buried in PISA report

Quote:
The reason is simple. Federal and state policymakers continue to embrace reforms that have little positive effect (if not downright negative effects) while ignoring reforms that make a difference. Buried within the PISA report is an analysis of educational systems that registered high test scores. Here are some of the less-reported findings:·

*The best performing school systems manage to provide high-quality education to all children.

*Students from low socio-economic backgrounds score a year behind their more affluent classmates. However, poorer students who are integrated with their more affluent classmates score strikingly higher. The difference is worth more than a year’s education.

*In schools where students are required to repeat grades (such as with promotion requirements), the test scores are lower and the achievement gap is larger.

*Tracking students (“ability grouping”) results in the gap becoming wider. The earlier the practice begins, the greater the gap. Poor children are more frequently shunted into the lower tracks.

*Systems that transfer weak or disruptive students score lower on tests and on equity. One-third of the differences in national performance can be ascribed to this one factor.

*Schools that have autonomy over curriculum, finances and assessment score higher.

*Schools that compete for students (vouchers, charters, etc.) show no achievement score advantage.

*Private schools do no better once family wealth factors are considered.

*Students that attended pre-school score higher, even after more than 10 years.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 01:56 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Note that some of the analysis is completely contrary to what people *believe* about our schools. Tracking makes the gap wider. Private schools are not better. Repeating grades does not work. Integration of lower socio-economic (read minority) students with affluent classmates does help. Headstart and other quality preschool programs DO work.
Headstart works until about first grade and then they are on par with students who didn't go to Headstart.
By third grade they are falling behind again. This was an HHS study.
If you don't have parent involvement the strides they made in Headstart are lost.

The declining involvement of parents in a child's education is a huge factor in K-12.
But that's a problem we cannot fix.

Head Start: A Tragic Waste of Money | Cato Institute
HHS: Head Start Students Do Worse in Math Than Non-Head Start Students | CNS News

And yes, other countries do education differently. Not everyone gets a full academic, go to college education.
Some go off to vocational/technical schools. And those students are not tested.

But here in the US, everyone is a winner, everyone is going to college regardless of their grade/aptitude/skill.
And then you DON'T want to count them for PISA scores ?

Sorry, you don't get to cherry pick here or give excuses. Since we have a nation of college bound students the PISA scores for the US does accurately reflect how we are doing on a global scale.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 01:59 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,916,488 times
Reputation: 17478
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Headstart works until about first grade and then they are on par with students who didn't go to Headstart.
By third grade they are falling behind again. This was an HHS study.
If you don't have parent involvement the strides they made in Headstart are lost.

The declining involvement of parents in a child's education is a huge factor in K-12.
But that's a problem we cannot fix.

Head Start: A Tragic Waste of Money | Cato Institute
HHS: Head Start Students Do Worse in Math Than Non-Head Start Students | CNS News
Then why do the kids who went to preschool do better on the PISA tests at 15?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Then why do the kids who went to preschool do better on the PISA tests at 15?
I'm just providing the results of HHS study on Headstart program.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 02:16 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,916,488 times
Reputation: 17478
Btw, the CATO Institute allows special interests to dictate its policies

Independent and Principled? Behind the Cato Myth | The Nation

Quote:
The Cato Institute is one of the leading manufacturers of toxic corporate propaganda, cynically undermining science and scholarship to serve the interests of tobacco companies, oil and gas, chemicals, health insurance, financial industry and other Cato donors.
Does Head Start work for kids? The bottom line

Does head start need to be improved. You bet, but the Cato report is totally biased and head start has worked for many children.

Quote:
Weighing all of the evidence and not just that cited by partisans on one side or the other, the most accurate conclusion is that Head Start produces modest benefits including some long-term gains for children. The much maligned public schools produce larger gains in achievement beginning in kindergarten which may well erase some of Head Start’s gains, but such efforts can be costly. Head Start’s cost-savings and other benefits may well exceed its costs. Yet, that is not enough. Head Start could produce larger gains if the program was better focused and made other improvements. Reforms being implemented by the Obama administration are an important step in that direction. More are needed including substantial deregulation at the federal level that would permit greater flexibility an innovation. Unshackled from unrealistic mission expansion and agency micromanagement, and refocused on education as job one, Head Start could actually produce the results that both its critics and defenders seek.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 02:52 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,481,831 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Btw, the CATO Institute allows special interests to dictate its policies

Independent and Principled? Behind the Cato Myth | The Nation



Does Head Start work for kids? The bottom line

Does head start need to be improved. You bet, but the Cato report is totally biased and head start has worked for many children.
It was a HHS report and I provided 2 links since I figured some would doubt the Cato link.
And the Cato link is nothing more than a reprint of a NYPost article.
HHS has the reports on their website as well.

And your second link is a blog bemoaning the sequester cuts and never even mentions the HHS study.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-18-2013, 02:57 PM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,943,863 times
Reputation: 1056
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Headstart works until about first grade and then they are on par with students who didn't go to Headstart.
By third grade they are falling behind again. This was an HHS study.
If you don't have parent involvement the strides they made in Headstart are lost.

The declining involvement of parents in a child's education is a huge factor in K-12.
But that's a problem we cannot fix.

Head Start: A Tragic Waste of Money | Cato Institute
HHS: Head Start Students Do Worse in Math Than Non-Head Start Students | CNS News

And yes, other countries do education differently. Not everyone gets a full academic, go to college education.
Some go off to vocational/technical schools. And those students are not tested.

But here in the US, everyone is a winner, everyone is going to college regardless of their grade/aptitude/skill.
And then you DON'T want to count them for PISA scores ?

Sorry, you don't get to cherry pick here or give excuses. Since we have a nation of college bound students the PISA scores for the US does accurately reflect how we are doing on a global scale.
The greatest in school factor for low achieving students is being taught by a string of effective teachers. The whole aptitude/parental involvement/students taking no responsibility,etc...... thing is just a smokescreen because the public doesn't have the will to enact policies that will attract effective teachers to these schools en masse or to the profession in general.

http://www.millenniumschools.co.uk/_...ng_matters.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:03 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top