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Old 06-15-2013, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,447,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post
Offer the bottom of the 20% of the class free Xboxes or Playstations if they pass and I guarantee they will.

For the girls I'm not sure.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, if we paid kids to pass, we'd have a lot more kids passing.
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Old 06-15-2013, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,447,774 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
You will have students who choose to only do the 80% and their parents will not be happy, especially the parents of bright but lazy kids. They may or may not decide to get mad at their kid, but many will be upset with you. It would not make me happy if this option were presented to my second child. I understand what you are saying but you will have parents complain about this. I would have been one of them. Don't get me wrong, I'd be furious with my child, and they would be well aware of that, but I would be upset that the option was presented in a way that my child felt it was a reasonable choice. As a fellow teacher I am well aware of and far more sympathic to the quandary you face than most, and you and I would not have a good exchange over this, imagine how some of your less reasonable parents will react.
I Know I answered this post before but I've been thinking on it. As a parent, how could I present differientated instruction in such a way as not to make you think I'm giving lazy/bright children a way out? Grades would be differentiated. Students choosing only to do 80% of the material would not be able to earn an A in the class. Only students who do all the material could do that.
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Old 06-15-2013, 05:34 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,845,523 times
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I still think that the lower kids will have trouble. If they only get 80% of the 80% they will still fail. So you will have the smart, lazy kids doing absolutely nothing and getting a B, and the low kids will still be failing. That is worse than a classroom where at least the smart lazy kids have to work to get their grade.
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Old 06-15-2013, 08:00 PM
 
Location: My beloved Bluegrass
20,103 posts, read 16,069,181 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I Know I answered this post before but I've been thinking on it. As a parent, how could I present differientated instruction in such a way as not to make you think I'm giving lazy/bright children a way out? Grades would be differentiated. Students choosing only to do 80% of the material would not be able to earn an A in the class. Only students who do all the material could do that.
I am not a fan of that type of differentiation. If your intent is to make sure the bottom kids learn certain key points, I'm there with you. I agree that low end kids can get overwhelmed and then give up and that isn't what you want, but at the same time you don't want to dumb down the instruction for those that need it.

What worked for me may not work for you because we probably have different teaching styles and I taught middle school. But my low end kids, like my other students, did well on testing in my subject compared to their average in other subjects, so it did work. Each unit I had certain things that to me were crucial for every single one of my kids to learn. I would address those every single day in some form on the bellwork. I would flat out tell the kids during some lessons "If you take nothing else from today's class, at least remember this," and the kids knew that meant it would be on the test. I gave the class a study guide with the bare basics at the beginning of the unit and told them if over 85% of the class got all those items right on the unit test, the entire class earned a reward. It was rare they didn't after the first unit or two. When I say bare basic, I mean just that. It was "big picture" information, key points, and stuff they needed to know to progress in the future. I had a policy that they could voluntarily retake a test to reclaim 1/2 credit for all other test items, but if they missed those items it was mandatory that they retake the test AFTER they did some worksheets I specifically designed to review the information. My goal, and I made this clear to them, was solely for them to learn the information, so I was willing to work with them on grades.

Students should never be told they have the option not to learn stuff but it is okay to emphasize that learning A is more important than learning B, and if they have to prioritize, this is how you would prefer they do it.
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Old 06-16-2013, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,447,774 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I am not a fan of that type of differentiation. If your intent is to make sure the bottom kids learn certain key points, I'm there with you. I agree that low end kids can get overwhelmed and then give up and that isn't what you want, but at the same time you don't want to dumb down the instruction for those that need it.

What worked for me may not work for you because we probably have different teaching styles and I taught middle school. But my low end kids, like my other students, did well on testing in my subject compared to their average in other subjects, so it did work. Each unit I had certain things that to me were crucial for every single one of my kids to learn. I would address those every single day in some form on the bellwork. I would flat out tell the kids during some lessons "If you take nothing else from today's class, at least remember this," and the kids knew that meant it would be on the test. I gave the class a study guide with the bare basics at the beginning of the unit and told them if over 85% of the class got all those items right on the unit test, the entire class earned a reward. It was rare they didn't after the first unit or two. When I say bare basic, I mean just that. It was "big picture" information, key points, and stuff they needed to know to progress in the future. I had a policy that they could voluntarily retake a test to reclaim 1/2 credit for all other test items, but if they missed those items it was mandatory that they retake the test AFTER they did some worksheets I specifically designed to review the information. My goal, and I made this clear to them, was solely for them to learn the information, so I was willing to work with them on grades.

Students should never be told they have the option not to learn stuff but it is okay to emphasize that learning A is more important than learning B, and if they have to prioritize, this is how you would prefer they do it.
I acually like that. Bellwork is one of the things I let go of this year because the teachers who teach the same subjects I taught didn't do it and felt it was a waste of class time. I really do feel that my bottom kids struggled more this year than in past years and had already decided to bring it back. IMO, it helps with classroom management and I'm only losing a couple of minutes as I'm, usually, doing things like taking attendance or getting things for kids who were absent the day before during those first few minutes. My bellwork has always been on yesterday's topic but I could, easily, alter it to focus on the 80%.

Thanks
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Old 06-16-2013, 10:17 AM
 
3,490 posts, read 6,080,064 times
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Ivory,

I applaud you for giving a ****. The world needs more people that know that feeling.

I would suggest trying to do things that get students involved in the material. Make it relate to them. When I was studying some particularly difficult content, I found practice quizzes made the material more interesting to me. I blared music and would go through a 3 hour quiz each day. The real challenge is just getting them interested. Most should be fully capable of learning it if you can get them interested.

You mentioned parents, so I'm assuming this is HS and not college. Remember that in HS many kids spend the majority of their day dealing with two things. Boredom, and social structure--bullying is a particular problem. Getting them to focus will always include the challenge that they have to be thinking in the back of their head about how to avoid the problem children.
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Old 06-18-2013, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Buckeye, AZ
38,936 posts, read 23,791,496 times
Reputation: 14125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
I wonder if it would go over better if presented as "Know all of this for a D...that plus this for a C....all that plus this for a B and everything plus this for an A".
In college I found this to be true. They would have the point break down and I would I strive to get an A in most courses. Though I ended up with a few B's (including an entire semester of business courses though three were tough and grouped together and one was a near A.) I feel the X combined points gets A, B, C and X and below are Ds and Fs would work in high school. If the student thinks a C is fine, let them get it. If they want to strive for an A or B, they should try. You can only lead someone to a door, they have to walk through it.
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