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Old 06-18-2013, 06:28 PM
 
Location: the Great Lakes states
711 posts, read 1,154,123 times
Reputation: 453

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxus View Post
Is there data out there that shows the school year is too short?

If the factors that lead to a poor quality of instruction is present during what time there is, how is extending the school year going to help?
Exactly. Improve K-12 instruction, and students could probably cover more ground, and become better critical thinkers, with LESS time in school. This would also open up the possibility of apprenticeships, work study, and completing college credit before age 18.
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Old 06-18-2013, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,308 posts, read 17,066,443 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer22 View Post
Exactly. Improve K-12 instruction, and students could probably cover more ground, and become better critical thinkers, with LESS time in school. This would also open up the possibility of apprenticeships, work study, and completing college credit before age 18.
What is your plan to accomplish this? What changes need to be made?

You're kidding yourself. We can't get kids to think critically now, why do you think spending less time in school will accomplish that goal?

Interestingly, I got told I teach too much this year. I was told to cut content. When I read my end of year student evaluations, most asked for me to slow down, teach less and review more...in other words, "Do it for us". In order to teach more in less time, I would have to be able to count on my students to pick up the slack. I don't see that happening any time soon.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Volunteer State
753 posts, read 320,389 times
Reputation: 1142
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer22 View Post
Exactly. Improve K-12 instruction, and students could probably cover more ground, and become better critical thinkers, with LESS time in school. This would also open up the possibility of apprenticeships, work study, and completing college credit before age 18.
Hey, did you other teachers see this? Wow!! All we have to do is improve K-12 education and everything will be OK!

Why didn't we think of this? Improve K-12 education, and education will be better!! All right!!! I'm on the bandwagon with this one!

Now... what is your plan to do this?

Hello?

Still there?

But I thought you had a plan....
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:49 PM
 
4,674 posts, read 3,436,283 times
Reputation: 3738
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
I meant to say countries. Finland would be an example.

I also think that class hours is probably a more important number to look at then actual days in school.
Yeah, the problem with that is, that the Finland school year is 190 days. Thats about two weeks longer then American kids go to school. I think Finland fits right into the pattern. The longer the school year, the higher the academic performance.
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Old 06-18-2013, 07:59 PM
Status: "60th anniversary of the polio vaccine! Hail to Pitt!" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
70,058 posts, read 60,642,093 times
Reputation: 20202
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Yeah, the problem with that is, that the Finland school year is 190 days. Thats about two weeks longer then American kids go to school. I think Finland fits right into the pattern. The longer the school year, the higher the academic performance.
Finland, Schminland! 25 years ago, it was Japan that supposedly had the model to emulate. I am not opposed to improving education, in fact I've done a lot of work in that regard over the past few decades, but I take such glowing success stories with a grain of salt (or more).
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:05 PM
 
Location: the Great Lakes states
711 posts, read 1,154,123 times
Reputation: 453
My comment on instructional improvement seemed to attract some hecklers.

I'm not going to continue this conversation given the tone of the comments, but you're welcome to read some websites from professional organizations that are working on improving education. There's many, many educators working very diligently on improving instruction.

Some are:
Membership, policy, and professional development for educators - ASCD
National Science Teachers Association - Science & Education Resource
National Council of Teachers of Mathematics
National Council of Teachers of English - Homepage

As far as journalism focused on education and school improvement:
Education Week American Education News Site of Record
District Administration Magazine |

Look past the noise and bluster, and look at the progress that is really being made on the ground. There is a lot of positive change happening and there is much more to go.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,308 posts, read 17,066,443 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
Hey, did you other teachers see this? Wow!! All we have to do is improve K-12 education and everything will be OK!

Why didn't we think of this? Improve K-12 education, and education will be better!! All right!!! I'm on the bandwagon with this one!

Now... what is your plan to do this?

Hello?

Still there?

But I thought you had a plan....
No, no, no...the OP just had the brilliant idea to "improve" K-12 education. Someone else has to come up with the plan...

Doncha just love people who don't have a clue what it would actually take to "improve" education tell us to improve education and all will be well? Tell me what to improve and I'll improve it but until we change attitudes about education, we'll be chasing our tails.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
22,308 posts, read 17,066,443 times
Reputation: 11754
Quote:
Originally Posted by summer22 View Post
My comment on instructional improvement seemed to attract some hecklers.

I'm not going to continue this conversation given the tone of the comments, but you're welcome to read some websites from professional organizations that are working on improving education. There's many, many educators working very diligently on improving instruction.

Some are:
Membership, policy, and professional development for educators - ASCD
National Science Teachers Association - Science & Education Resource
National Council of Teachers of Mathematics
National Council of Teachers of English - Homepage

As far as journalism focused on education and school improvement:
Education Week American Education News Site of Record
District Administration Magazine |

Look past the noise and bluster, and look at the progress that is really being made on the ground. There is a lot of positive change happening and there is much more to go.
What's YOUR plan? You seem to think it's so easy. How would YOU do it?

There's always some new thing out there that's going to fix education that we'll throw out in 5 years and replace with something else. I don't have time to figure out your argument for you. That's your job. You're the one who said we just need to improve education and we can make the school year shorter. I'd love to hear how you would accomplish this. You must know something the rest of us don't if you think we can both shorten the year and be more effective teaching. What is that?
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:12 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 3,187,901 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
Yeah, the problem with that is, that the Finland school year is 190 days. Thats about two weeks longer then American kids go to school. I think Finland fits right into the pattern. The longer the school year, the higher the academic performance.
First off, as others have pointed out, this discussion is mostly a moot point because there are other factors that are more significantly affecting the our ranking then how many days our students are in school.

Second, Finland students receive LESS INSTRUCTIONAL HOURS, which as I mentioned earlier, is probably a more accurate measure of the argument you're trying to make.

Quote:
According to the OECD, the hours of compulsory instruction per year in these countries range from 608 hours in Finland (a top performer) to 926 hours in France (average) at the elementary level, compared to the over 900 hours required in California, New York, Texas, and Massachusetts. Of particular note, no state requires as few hours as Finland, even though Finland scores near the top of nearly every international assessment. As a matter of fact, Vermont – a high-performing state7 -- requires the fewest number of hours (700 hours) for its elementary students (grades 1-2) than any other state, and it still requires more than Finland. Vermont’s requirement is also more than the 612 hours high-achieving Korea requires of its early elementary students. Moreover, all but 5 states require more hours of instruction at the early elementary school level than the OECD countries8 average of 759 hours. - See more at: Time in school: How does the U.S. compare?
http://www.centerforpubliceducation....the-US-compare
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:44 PM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,287,059 times
Reputation: 4014
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
I saw this on a thread on the Canadian forum. Schools in most of the Canadian provinces are on a ten month school year, about 194 to 198 days per year. Compared to the nine month school year 176 to 180 days common in the US.

For example in the Province of Manitoba the official 2013-2014 school year begins Tuesday, September 3, 2013 and ends on Friday, June 27, 2014. Thats 196 student school days. Just across the border in Minnesota students go to school only 176 days per year. Thats 20 days less classroom time then their Canadian counterparts.

So is it a problem? Is the American school year too short?
The underlying issue is not that U.S. school years are too short, but rather that some other countries' school years are too long, IMHO

Nothing has really changed, AFAIK...the U.S. still the same country as when it invented and pioneered technological innovations decades ago like the Internet (through ARPANET, the Internet's predecessor), and modern air conditioning...no need to try to fix something that really isn't broken to begin with
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