Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-24-2013, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,311,022 times
Reputation: 4533

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkpunk View Post
I don't remember homework being weighted heavily until say sixth grade by me. It would be on the report card but it was more like a job review rather than a letter or number grade like it is in middle school or high school.
We don't figure homework into the student's academic achhievement grade at all. We can use it toward effort grades.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-25-2013, 06:49 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
8,396 posts, read 9,439,375 times
Reputation: 4070
Default Is the American School Year Too Short?

No...

The focus of US education is all wrong and lengthening the school year will do nothing to address this serious and damaging problem.

Since NCLB was implemented, the emphasis has changed dramatically. Nowadays, the only measure that politicians look at and pressure state education administrators on is test scores. Advanced students see these tests as a joke. Average students have no difficulty with them. The only kids who struggle with achieving a passing score are the below average students. Accordingly, all the effort these days is aimed at getting the bottom students to pass an easy test. This has been going on for a decade now and we all see how terribly this has impacted the schools, but there's no public outcry. So, look for this to continue and for idiotic top-down edicts that are designed to appeal to folks who know nothing about education to be the order of the day.

And public schools will continue to deteriorate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-25-2013, 10:17 PM
 
8,231 posts, read 17,312,752 times
Reputation: 3696
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
We don't figure homework into the student's academic achhievement grade at all. We can use it toward effort grades.
What is your rationale for this? Of what is the report card (or final ) grade comprised, then?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-26-2013, 12:21 AM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
3,158 posts, read 6,120,696 times
Reputation: 5619
There are two major components to education - time spent in class and the amount of material learned by the student. One of these components must be a variable. In the United States (and most other countries) time is a constant, therefore the amount of learning is the variable.

We seem to expect that all students will master the material in the time allotted, but the truth is that students learn at different speeds. A teacher who has three weeks to teach a unit must cover all parts of the unit in those three weeks. The top students will master the subject matter, the average student will master most of the subject matter, and the below-average student will master only some of the content. For some reason, however, we seem to think that all students should master all of the subject matter in the time allotted.

Here is an analogy: I could line up 30 students on the school's football field and tell them to run as far as they could until I told them to stop. If I told them to stop 12 seconds later, the fastest runners will have run 100 yards, the average runners will have run 75-85 yards, and the slowest runners will have run less than 70 yards. No one would be surprised when they all didn't finish at the same pace. For some reason we are willing to accept physical limitations but not limitations on learning.

The amount of time we keep our kids in school is arbitrary. If we wanted to increase the amount of knowledge learned, we need to increase the amount of time students have to learn. This can be accomplished in many different ways: more efficient use of the time already spent in school, lengthening the school day, but not the school year, lengthening the school year, or even requiring students to go to school for more than 12 years.

There are a lot of independent variables that go into this as well, but this is a start.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,311,022 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
What is your rationale for this? Of what is the report card (or final ) grade comprised, then?
The report card grades are based on what the student does in class. They reflect how consistent the child is in meeting the standards and how independent he/she is in demonstrating mastery.

When you grade homework, are you grading the child's efforts or that of someone else? Did he get the work correct on his own, or did he need help?

We can still assign homework, it just can't be figured into the achievement grade.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 07:44 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,520,614 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
The report card grades are based on what the student does in class. They reflect how consistent the child is in meeting the standards and how independent he/she is in demonstrating mastery.

When you grade homework, are you grading the child's efforts or that of someone else? Did he get the work correct on his own, or did he need help?

We can still assign homework, it just can't be figured into the achievement grade.
Without a grade, how do you get them to do the homework?

When I first started teaching, I had no intention of grading everything we did in class or homework. After a while, my students figured out that I don't grade everything. One day I passed out the day's activity, which was intended to be an investigation to introduce a new topic and a hand went up. The question was "Is this being graded?". When I said no, I kid you not, half the class put down their pencils and would not participate.

The school I was teaching at is going to ungraded homework in math classes next year. I discussed this with my chemistry classes one day and asked how they'd like it. Half the class was appalled at the idea of not getting "free" homework points to boost their grade while the other class cheered and said "Cool! No homework EVER.". I do not see this working well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 08:20 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
1,243 posts, read 1,146,190 times
Reputation: 2159
We are on the block schedule, meaning 90 days for each semester (18 weeks). If state testing is in the 16th week, we lose 2-2.5 weeks of teaching that curriculum. (Why, you ask, are the state tests given that early? Because the bubble sheets are sent cross country to another state in order to be graded, analyzed, etc. then sent back. Again you ask, 'Why?" Because someone in the state of Tennessee is friends with the state DOE and money is being made from this effort. Too detailed to go into here, but it's true.)

Now, we are down to 15-16 weeks of teaching the curriculum. But wait! there must be 1-2 weeks of reviewing of the curriculum before those bloody standardized tests. And review we must, as they are now a part of our teacher (and school) evaluation.

Now let's remove those days we are not in class for volleyball games, plays, class meetings, pep rallys, etc. Let's say a 8 days (1.5 weeks).

So what do we have left? Out of 18 weeks to teach my Chemistry class the curriculum that the state dictates I must cover, I really only have about 13-14 weeks.

Oh, and BTW, the last 2 weeks are essentially babysitting, since the finals are already done. We might do some labs but as for curriculum - not a chance. the students know that after the state exams are done, so are they.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 08:22 AM
 
Location: Suburbia
8,826 posts, read 15,311,022 times
Reputation: 4533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
Without a grade, how do you get them to do the homework?

When I first started teaching, I had no intention of grading everything we did in class or homework. After a while, my students figured out that I don't grade everything. One day I passed out the day's activity, which was intended to be an investigation to introduce a new topic and a hand went up. The question was "Is this being graded?". When I said no, I kid you not, half the class put down their pencils and would not participate.

The school I was teaching at is going to ungraded homework in math classes next year. I discussed this with my chemistry classes one day and asked how they'd like it. Half the class was appalled at the idea of not getting "free" homework points to boost their grade while the other class cheered and said "Cool! No homework EVER.". I do not see this working well.
It is working fine. It can be applied towards their effort grade, just not their achievement grade. So if they don't do the hw, the effort grade drops. This is only policy up through sixth grade with the standards based grading.

You're focused on homework. We don't have to give homework. They are graded on what they demonstrate in school.

They still do the homework. Maybe it's a different population, but their parents won't let them not do it. The students who don't do it probably wouldn't do it even if it was graded.

Another interesting point is that we are not supposed to penalize the grade for work that is turned in "late".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-27-2013, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,520,614 times
Reputation: 14692
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgbwc View Post
It is working fine. It can be applied towards their effort grade, just not their achievement grade. So if they don't do the hw, the effort grade drops. This is only policy up through sixth grade with the standards based grading.

You're focused on homework. We don't have to give homework. They are graded on what they demonstrate in school.

They still do the homework. Maybe it's a different population, but their parents won't let them not do it. The students who don't do it probably wouldn't do it even if it was graded.

Another interesting point is that we are not supposed to penalize the grade for work that is turned in "late".
We don't have effort grades.

We're not supposed to penalize late work either. I kid you not, I took home a stack of papers to grade that was a foot and a half high the last weekend of the semester.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-30-2013, 05:22 AM
 
362 posts, read 794,299 times
Reputation: 159
No, us Canadians are just slow eh.

I think a shorter school year forces one to focus better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:45 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top