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Old 08-12-2013, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
3,681 posts, read 3,266,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Higher education generally has risen faster than inflation and can cost a family a bundle especially if more than one child attends. It seems institutions raised tuition simply because they could knowing that everyone knows you 'need an education'. Question is has our educational institutions met their goal of 'educating' students what with the fact that a college education today doesn't necessarily guarantee a job after a student graduates. And the fact that students tend to have more debt as a result of that education puts the question to whether or not a college education is 'worth it'. Ultimately this all goes to asking what's an 'education' for and are our institutions doing a good job along those lines?

Preparing a young person "for life" includes preparing them to get a job or start a business.

Your question could be phrased "If I am taught how to manage my life, will that help me in getting a job?" and the answer would be "Yes".
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
2,956 posts, read 4,383,287 times
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For the lower and middle class going beyond high school for a higher education is so that you can get a job that's better than what you would land without it. Period. Attending college for all the other flowery reasons is reserved for those with a wealthy daddy or spouse or lucky/smart enough to land enough scholarships. If you attend for any other reason than to find a better job, have no huge financial backing, and rack up untold debt you're simply a fool. Even a reasonably intelligent 18 year old should have enough common sense to know better, but as we all know they often times don't.

The middle class level is where having the ability to attend college is slipping away. Those people from lower income families can get grants based on need to significantly decrease the money they need to borrow. For children of our shrinking middle class, you pay full bore as your family struggles to help you as best they can. My youngest daughter went to college for free her last semester since she was old enough to get off our FAFSA. Working part time her income was very low and she got grants to cover everything. Before that, she/we paid 100% of her school.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:50 AM
 
1,356 posts, read 1,572,501 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by travric View Post
Excellent observation I think. Beautiful. When that is married to 'specialization' and I'm referring to that as what one exactly focuses on to study in school particularly college ideally it's a great approach to fashioning one's future QUALITY OF LIFE.

I don't think the system is completely broken but there are certainly some squeaky wheels that need some grease real bad. I do feel bad for the kids today who graduate with such high debt loads that in a way they are immediately behind that 8 ball paying that back instead of putting their hard earned bucks into something that will help them grow economically. Now for some students after they graduate into the 'real' world, they're simply like gerbils running in place on a treadmill goin' 'round and 'round. Question is our society doing enough to ease that transition? I only point out the recent efforts to raise the interest rates on student loans.
Yeah I agree. I found in the latter half of my college education that a lot of students get into some type of hobby that is related to their field of interest and build from there. The things one gets from their education such as adaptability, analytical reading and writing,creative thinking, communication, researching skills, etc.... are cross curricular and they're fostered by more individual pursuits, education, and working. Ultimately, they're things employers look for individuals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgg View Post
For the lower and middle class going beyond high school for a higher education is so that you can get a job that's better than what you would land without it. Period. Attending college for all the other flowery reasons is reserved for those with a wealthy daddy or spouse or lucky/smart enough to land enough scholarships. If you attend for any other reason than to find a better job, have no huge financial backing, and rack up untold debt you're simply a fool. Even a reasonably intelligent 18 year old should have enough common sense to know better, but as we all know they often times don't.

The middle class level is where having the ability to attend college is slipping away. Those people from lower income families can get grants based on need to significantly decrease the money they need to borrow. For children of our shrinking middle class, you pay full bore as your family struggles to help you as best they can. My youngest daughter went to college for free her last semester since she was old enough to get off our FAFSA. Working part time her income was very low and she got grants to cover everything. Before that, she/we paid 100% of her school.
Education is not technical training and people are not little cogs. I come from a working class family and the biggest myth I ever heard about higher education is that you go to get a job. It's a fact that those who pursue higher education end up having better life outcomes and middle and lower class students shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing an education. They're already underrepresented at competitive universities. No 18 year old knows what they want to do for the rest of their life even if they say they do and they shouldn't be expected to know either. They were people I went to school with who were there just to get a job and that showed as they were not serious about what they were learning and only did the bare minimum to pass because school was just another phase.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:51 AM
 
541 posts, read 798,342 times
Reputation: 525
Interesting question. Here's my two cents on the matter:

I agree that education as a whole is a life long process that people acquire when they learn something new. One can learn different things from learning to fix a faucet to learning how to fix a computer. A lot of people are more hands on and work on the theory of learning by doing it themselves (with guidance from others), making some mistakes, and learning. There's your life long process of learning in education.


Now the other debate: college. As it has been stated with a few posters above me or perhaps on the second page as well as numerous articles from sources such as USA Today, Washington Post, Huffington Post, New York Times, Forbes, or various other media outlets, a college degree has been attached with questions marks to it. The two questions that circulate through the minds of parents and kids now are "will this college degree give me a return value" and "is the debt one accumulates going to be low and payable without adding too much interest in the mix". All reasonable questions. Some people graduate debt free, some graduate with some debt, and other graduate with a lot of debt.

After the debt question becomes "will this degree help me be competitive and get me in with a company that will allow me to gain new skills, get more experience, and let me grow as a person while giving me a decent wage/salary". The wage/salary doesn't have to be 50K with no experience or else like what some people claim new college graduates want. A salary of 30-33K starting off will do nicely for those with a college degree. More money for those who have a degree in a field that commands more, like electrical engineering for example.

Working at a retail place for 9 dollars an hour with a college degree doesn't fit what I just said in the previous paragraph, unless you're trying to become an assistant manager or manager of some kind and you need a little bit of experience under your belt for the retail job you're working at to move up. Hopefully if that's the case, then you can move up while working hard pretty quickly. However, it's retail and retail doesn't give two craps about people in general, especially if they really are hard workers with a good work ethic backed with a bachelors degree. See Walmart for example.

Then the question becomes if one has been able to move beyond a 9 dollar job 3 to 5 years if not more after they've graduated college and are now making into the 30K range to even the 40K range. Being out of college for more than 5 years and still doing jobs that pay 10 dollars an hour makes the college graduate bitter, upset, mad, and depressed all in one while trying to strive for more but not getting any breaks.
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Old 08-12-2013, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Florida
725 posts, read 1,324,409 times
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As I see it Education is not very good at what it does.
It is based on a "one-size-fits-all" premise. Those who don't make the grade are regarded as "slow learners" or some such. Never is it taken into consideration that they just learn differently. They whole education system needs to be remodeled.

As I was going thru school, I noted that after about 6th grade all the material was a repeat except that the print in the books got smaller. High school was mostly a waste of time, except for the semester on Office Practice and the one on Commercial law.

The average student could do all 12 years of schooling in 8 years. This would leave the county with 4 years worth of money that they could use giving these people their college education.

Schooling definitely does not prepare one for Life in this world.
Where are the classes on how to get along with other people?
Where are the classes on anger management - Yes, everyone could use them.
Where are the classes on just learning to use your own brain to your advantage.
See User's Manual for the Brain
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The User's Manual for the Brain (Vol 1)

And Owner's Manual for the Brain
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Owner's Manual for the Brain: Everyday Applications from Mind-Brain Research 3rd Edition
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:35 PM
 
639 posts, read 904,600 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Octa View Post
Education is not technical training and people are not little cogs. I come from a working class family and the biggest myth I ever heard about higher education is that you go to get a job. It's a fact that those who pursue higher education end up having better life outcomes and middle and lower class students shouldn't be discouraged from pursuing an education. They're already underrepresented at competitive universities. No 18 year old knows what they want to do for the rest of their life even if they say they do and they shouldn't be expected to know either. They were people I went to school with who were there just to get a job and that showed as they were not serious about what they were learning and only did the bare minimum to pass because school was just another phase.
^^I agree and I think doing the bare minimum for education is common among both poor performing and high performing students. I stated this in another thread is that too many people look at education and having a job as a chore rather than a life fulfillment. Some only think "what is the best job I can get that doesn't require lots of schooling, pays good money, and is not too stressful." If people eventually find the career or field of work they'd love, we'd all be much more content.

I'll also add this. As much as dorming at school is a great experience, there are many of those there just to socialize and party rather than focus on education or career. Or more so, they get distracted by the social scene and don't put enough thought into what they want to learn and what possible career they might want.
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Old 08-14-2013, 04:34 AM
 
6 posts, read 7,333 times
Reputation: 15
Default eduaction is must

Education is must at every level. Education made a person to stand in the society.It open the mind of every child and gives the ways to see the world.Education make a person knowledgeable beside it a lot of money is spend on the education.
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Old 08-14-2013, 10:52 AM
 
4,456 posts, read 3,541,715 times
Reputation: 3101
Quote:
Education is must at every level. Education made a person to stand in the society.It open the mind of every child and gives the ways to see the world.Education make a person knowledgeable beside it a lot of money is spend on the education.
Agreed. On a particular note sometimes lack of 'money' precludes an 'education'. Personally, I don't think that should be a potential state of affairs for some. It shouldn't be at all. There's 'paying' for knowledge and there's 'paying' for knowledge by not having the opportunity to obtain knowledge
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:31 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,127,433 times
Reputation: 5171
The purpose of education is to teach people to think. Unfortunatly our teaching system does just the opposite.
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Old 08-15-2013, 08:46 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,127,433 times
Reputation: 5171
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhZone View Post
As I see it Education is not very good at what it does.
It is based on a "one-size-fits-all" premise. Those who don't make the grade are regarded as "slow learners" or some such. Never is it taken into consideration that they just learn differently. They whole education system needs to be remodeled.

As I was going thru school, I noted that after about 6th grade all the material was a repeat except that the print in the books got smaller. High school was mostly a waste of time, except for the semester on Office Practice and the one on Commercial law.

The average student could do all 12 years of schooling in 8 years. This would leave the county with 4 years worth of money that they could use giving these people their college education.

Schooling definitely does not prepare one for Life in this world.
Where are the classes on how to get along with other people?
Where are the classes on anger management - Yes, everyone could use them.
Where are the classes on just learning to use your own brain to your advantage.
See User's Manual for the Brain
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The User's Manual for the Brain (Vol 1)

And Owner's Manual for the Brain
Amazon.com: Customer Reviews: The Owner's Manual for the Brain: Everyday Applications from Mind-Brain Research 3rd Edition
Actually public education is very good at what it does; you just misinterpret what its purpose is.

Public education's purpose is not to give people the skills and abilities to fulfill their potential; it is to program clones to be a compliant member of the collective.

If public education taught you to think, you would quickly realize that the entire system is a sham.

The methods used in public education make the acquisition of knowledge as painful, boring, and confusing and is humanly possible.

It is why the vast majority of society cannot perform such simple functions as understanding compounding interest or to determine truth by way of logical fallacies.
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