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Hello everyone!
I came across this forum by accident, while trying to find some data regarding the difference between Canadian and US public schools.
After I've had an experience of dealing with the methods of education in US public schools, ( my son is in 7th grade by now,) I wonder if there are any people here who know what's the difference between the US and Canadian public schools in terms of quality of education.
Needless to say I was appalled by the level of teaching in US schools in academic sence, because it's nowhere close to the level of Soviet schools, that I was attending long time ago. I do see a big difference in METHODS of education that Russians applied comparably to US methods, where the text-books are missing from the first grade on. With the absence of texbooks DEFINITE standards of what needs to be achieved by students by the end of the year, the ultimate measure of progress are obviously absent as well (as far as parents are concerned.)
I know that education in public schools is better in Europe ( although some Brits told me that the quality of it is getting somewhat worse lately as well,) and I've heard that Canadian education in public schools is better then in US.
Does anyone know why exactly, and what's the major difference between Canadian and American public schools?
Is it the difference in methods of teaching? The standards? The requirements for diploma?
Any information would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
Mod note - Posters, please note the date of this thread and note new comment that bumped this thread on post #15.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 08-17-2013 at 08:22 AM..
This is jmho, and I'm thinking out loud here, but one possible reason why US schools are suffering (in general, not overall) is because as a country we deal with a much more diverse population than other parts of the world. Of course, some states are more overburdened than others, but it's very hard to educate everyone equally according to a set standard when 1) many students don't know how to speak/read/write the language, 2) special needs students are accorded right by law to be mainstreamed, 3) many urban areas are overcrowded. In addition, we have laws regarding discipline in the classroom that protect students, sometimes to a fault. I'm not sure that's the case in all the other countries.
Now as to Canada specifically, I think the first 2 points I raised apply. However, I have a friend who lives in Vancouver, and the ESL issue seems to be making an impact in her son's classroom, and he is only in preschool. So it may be something to watch for in the future.
Thank you for your response.
I don't know exactly how the ESL works, since I never had to deal with it, but it would be obvious to me that you can't teach different subjects in class those who have proficiency in language ( English in this case) and those who don't in the same manner. I do understand as well that Soviets had an advantage in terms of how the system of education for minorities has been set, however my question remains - what exactly makes public school education in Canada better then in US? After all Canada has to deal with ESL problem as well, so what is it they do differently?
( I wonder if I should post the same thread in "Canada" section of the forum.)
My impression is that the ESL issue might be confined to areas like Vancouver, and maybe Toronto, larger metropolitan areas with more immigrants. We looked into moving to Canada at one time and it seems as though most of the population does speak the educational language (is it English in Quebec as well?). Also, you might post in the Canada forum and ask what their laws are concerning children with disabilities and special needs.
My Dh has a cousin from Taiwan that came here for grad school. His take is that in his country they don't learn to think outside of the box. A lot of his education consists of rote memorization. He went to the top university in the country. In Taiwan everyone takes the same entrance exam, kind of like the SAT and ACT here. But all the high schools are geared towards taking the test, and most students go to afterschool "cram school" to get ready as well. I am pretty sure Japan has the same system. The score you get determines which university you get into. So, other countries might do better in terms of concrete achievement if their educational system is standardized. But the last time I checked the U.S still leads the way in innovation.
So, other countries might do better in terms of concrete achievement if their educational system is standardized. But the last time I checked the U.S still leads the way in innovation.
I understand that money in US still can buy decent education - be that private schools or Universities. Money can buy foreign specialists too ( have you checked lately how many foreigners are working in US research labs and Universities?) But it's a system of public schools I am interested in particular - the kind that is offered for everyone.
Thank you for your response again - I did post the same question in Canada section; may be they'll be able to answer.
OUr experience with Canadian Public Schools has been dissappointing
There are important facts for Americans to know about the Ontario Public Elementary School system that are difficult to understand in their entirety until you experience them. This information may help you decide what type of school to consider. When we moved our 3 children (Grade 1 thru Grade6) to Oakville, ON a suburb of Toronto, We learned that the Ontario Public School system is behind the US/Michigan system.
Indeed, our experience in the Oakville Public Schools, an affluent and educated community, has been the only disappointing factor in our ex-pat move to Canada. Upon arriving and experiencing the Oakville public schools we have learned that the Ontario, CAN elementary curriculum is behind the Michigan curriculum. This experience has led us to move our children out of their Ontario Public School and to a private school which we believe is much more in line with Michigan standards. Though curriculums can and should be only a minimal guideline, we found the differences in the curriculum expectations starting in Grade 1, explain why our children found the Ontario schools to be academically unchallenging.
There is some belief that Ontario public schools may catch up with the US in the High School years, due to a 2-track high school system - University Bound vs. College Bound - and the potential for a 13th year.
Despite moving into the 5th ranked (of 72) Ontario school Boards (Halton/Oakville) we found the schools 1 -2 years behind the US schools we came from. IF you take the time to compare your US curriculum to the Ontario curriculum, you quickly see the expectations are much lower in Ontario. I did a detailed analysis I won't share here but you can do the same, usually finding all the inforamtion you need on the web. Compare Grade by Grade math expectations . It's a little harder to decipher the Language Arts component but our experience and in depth dicussions with our schools (both US and Canadian) revealed great differences in writing, reading and novel studies expectations by grade.
As a note, other members in a local club called the American Women's Club of Oakville, have expereinced very similar situations, done silmilar research and moved their children out of the public schools. Hope this helps you!
Last edited by sherbg; 10-25-2008 at 04:31 PM..
Reason: Typing format indications were in it
We were considering moving to Oakville from North Carolina. Thank you for the school information. Are there any public schools in Oakville that are better than others? What about the Catholic school board?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherbg
There are important facts for Americans to know about the Ontario Public Elementary School system that are difficult to understand in their entirety until you experience them. This information may help you decide what type of school to consider. When we moved our 3 children (Grade 1 thru Grade6) to Oakville, ON a suburb of Toronto, We learned that the Ontario Public School system is behind the US/Michigan system.
Indeed, our experience in the Oakville Public Schools, an affluent and educated community, has been the only disappointing factor in our ex-pat move to Canada. Upon arriving and experiencing the Oakville public schools we have learned that the Ontario, CAN elementary curriculum is behind the Michigan curriculum. This experience has led us to move our children out of their Ontario Public School and to a private school which we believe is much more in line with Michigan standards. Though curriculums can and should be only a minimal guideline, we found the differences in the curriculum expectations starting in Grade 1, explain why our children found the Ontario schools to be academically unchallenging.
There is some belief that Ontario public schools may catch up with the US in the High School years, due to a 2-track high school system - University Bound vs. College Bound - and the potential for a 13th year.
Despite moving into the 5th ranked (of 72) Ontario school Boards (Halton/Oakville) we found the schools 1 -2 years behind the US schools we came from. IF you take the time to compare your US curriculum to the Ontario curriculum, you quickly see the expectations are much lower in Ontario. I did a detailed analysis I won't share here but you can do the same, usually finding all the inforamtion you need on the web. Compare Grade by Grade math expectations . It's a little harder to decipher the Language Arts component but our experience and in depth dicussions with our schools (both US and Canadian) revealed great differences in writing, reading and novel studies expectations by grade.
As a note, other members in a local club called the American Women's Club of Oakville, have expereinced very similar situations, done silmilar research and moved their children out of the public schools. Hope this helps you!
We have found that many of the private schools utilise a curriculum more like the US schools...in addition they utilise USA textbooks. With our move to the private school in Oakville we have been much more satisfied and our children are finally being challenged academically!
FYI - We were in the Catholic School district in one of the better ranked scores based on the EQAO (Ontario's standardized test) and thus were surprised that they were behind. I have yet to meet any AMerican's who've found the schools to be adequate if they intend to return to the US and that covers a cross section of the better schools in the area. THough the Catholic board of Halton is ranked higher than the Halton public board, please remember that it has none of the "almost-private" feel of many US parochial schools. If you contact the American women's CLub of Oakville, you will be able to get additional personal perspective!
You mentioned you moved from Michigan, I believe Michigan is ranked higher than North Carolina (Wake County) maybe the Oakville schools would be right in line with North Carolina?? It is something to investigate I guess. What about areas in Oakville or neighborhoods? North, South, East???
Thanks for the info!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by sherbg
We have found that many of the private schools utilise a curriculum more like the US schools...in addition they utilise USA textbooks. With our move to the private school in Oakville we have been much more satisfied and our children are finally being challenged academically!
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OUr experience with Canadian Public Schools has been dissappointing
