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Originally Posted by Caffreys
It should be the kids choice to where she or he wants to attend?
Older children should certainly have a voice in their educational options, but the responsibility ultimately rests with the parents who often see and understand the pros and cons much better than the child. Most public schooled kids have no choice about where they attend.
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If you asked after having them review their options. I bet 90%
would choose against home schooling...
I would take you up on that bet! I've asked LOTS of kids what their schooling preference is. Almost all of them would prefer to be home schooled for academic reasons, but they admit they like going to school to be with their friends. This is true whether the kids have attended public school, private school, or home school. Many have had a variety of schooling experiences, including home schooling, and they ALL prefer home schooling or wish they could be home schooled.
I've also had many kids ask me to home school them because they see a difference in their academic knowledge and options vs. what my daughter is getting in home school.
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What makes a home school parent more educated in teaching than a teacher with a master's degree.
Professionally, they may not be better qualified to teach. However, personally, they are the only ones with their child's best interests at heart. In a conventional school system, the child is just one of many. The parents have a vested interest in how their children are raised, what academics they are exposed to, and any socialization that occurs. The parents usually know their children better than any "professional" ever will and will be more willing to accommodate the learning environment and programs to match the needs of the child.
Furthermore, many "uneducated" parents are doing exemplary jobs of teaching their children at home. There are home school curriculums to match any need and level of expertise. Teaching children IS NOT very difficult, despite what the "professionals" claim. My background is elementary education; I've seen both sides.
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Kids need space and will adjust better in college then relying on their parents all their lives.
Some will; some won't. Many colleges are actively recruiting home schooled children because they are better prepared academically, PLUS their socialization skills exceed those of conventionally schooled children.
Why is it always assumed that home school families aren't teaching their children to stand on their own two feet? Many home schooled children can actually handle "real life" better than their conventionally schooled peers because their parents have gotten them involved in the community since day one. They usually reach adulthood with a wide variety of experiences and exposures to various peoples.
I recently read an article about "helicopter parents" (the ones hovering over their children in college and career), and no where did the article state this was a home school problem. Actually, home schooling wasn't even mentioned. Most home schoolers are taught to think and act independently as opposed to the conventionally schooled children who are taught what to think rather than how to think.
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Anyways, home schooled or not we all care about our kids and their education.
Absolutely! Each family chooses what it deems best for the individual child. Isn't it wonderful there are so many options?!
It should be the kids choice to where she or he wants to attend?
If you asked after having them review their options. I bet 90%
would choose against home schooling...
What makes a home school parent more educated in teaching than a teacher
with a master's degree.
Anyways, home schooled or not we all care about our kids and their education.
To your first question I'll pose another rhetorical question - What major life-affecting decisions do you typically allow your young children to make on their own today? Following-up - Do you allow them not to do homework? To go out when they want to? To stay up as late as they wish? To watch as much TV as they like? To play video games all day? To not do any chores? ... I hope you get my drift... But all that said, there's no body of objective-evidence regarding children being against homeschooling. I certainly won't give credence to a "bet" based upon anyone's uneducated guess when the published evidence today is that home-schooled children are at any age to age comparison more knowledgeable and skilled than their public-school counterparts. There is also no objective body of evidence speaking to home-schooled children by in large being socially disadvantaged compared to their counterparts although that is the argument most commonly given against it.
Regarding your second question. Both my wife and I have graduate degrees and are life-long learners who love to learn and experience new things. We are perfectionists and naturally curious and we are ambitious and achievers. That puts us head and shoulders above those we work with today and the vast majority of teachers our children would possibly be exposed to attending public school. Just because someone has a Master's degree doesn't make them worthy (or more worthy than us as parents) to teach my children... in grad school my wife and I figured out through direct experience the vast majority of students in our two programs were not top-caliber, sharp thinkers, articulate, etc. I'm simply not impressed by credentials which anyone who applies a bit of effort or time can achieve. I'm also generally not impressed by anyone in a career where there is no outside motivational force to stay at the top, to grow their own body of knowledge, to publish new knowledge, to do their job to the best of their ability, nor to worry about being replaced by someone who does a better job. I'm more impressed with people who have achieved something career-wise, or long-term goal-wise demonstrating successfully applied or innovative use or development of new knowledge. It's those people I want my children spending time with... those are the achievers and thought leaders that everyone should want their children taught by.
I am also impressed with how home-schooled kids get one-on-one or near one-on-one learning experiences which public-schooled children almost never receive. Even the talented teachers in public education institutions simple have too many students to attend to to ever truly provide individualized attention. They also are stuck working within rules and regulations set forth with the whole of the student body (local, regional or national) in mind rather than to help facilitate learning of those few who want to or are capable of it. That is what makes a home-schooled environment a superior environment.
My solution was to find a good school where my kids were placed in gifted classes. I talk to the teachers daily and know where there are any deficiencies in curriculum and, where necessary, I will supplement with homeschool materials (Saxon Math, Singapore Science, Shurley English, etc.).
This is one of my biggest complaints.....why would a parent need to supplement w/ additional materials at home when their child is in a gifted program?...that's the whole point of the gifted program, since it is by nature, supposed to provide academic challenge and acceleration.
We just switched my middle child this year from a catholic school to the public school gifted class. I expect to do my part at home as a parent (helping w/ hw, reinforcing concepts introduced at school, proividing routines and a quiet work environment), but I am very resentful, quite frankly, of "filling in the gaps", "picking up the slack" and "enriching" my daughter at home..... all of what should be taught in a gifted class of only 20 students.
Where lies the problem? I'm in a "good" school district which is well-known and well-respected. Is it the school board? The administration? The principals? The teachers?
Is it an overall lack of standards in our country? Is it that public school is overall relatively weak?
My daughter's class this quarter had more quizzes on fire safety, drug awareness, stanger danger, students "rights and responsibilites" etc than on actual academics....like suburban kids whose SES contains households with over 100k salaries, avg home prices of over 500k and many times both parents w/ a masters degree really NEED to hear how they should "not bring a firearm to school"........geez....
Whatever happened to "reading, writing and arithmatic?".....
Thank you for answering my questions. Now i am curious to know how to home school. How is this possibly with two working parents. Is it possible to do both, public school, and home school? If have no choice and both have to work is it better to send your child to a catholic school verus a public school. My child is 3 years old and can count to 1000, knows his upper and lower case letters, knows the days of the week, months, and almost can tell time. I must be doing a decent job working with him so far, but i only have an AA degree. He goes to a quality daycare fulltime now, but question the bad habits he picks up at daycare.
Interesting, reading through this thread. I am a former h.s. science teacher and former college professor, but see both sides of this homeschooling issue. And I don't believe in generalizations. So ... Some students do very well in a homeschool environment. Some do much better in a public school environment. Some home schooling doesn't work. Some public schooling doesn't work.
Charles Wallace's posts here very nicely explain how homeschooling works in the better instances ( good kids, good parents ).
My kids went to a great public school and they have all done very well. I have taught in one h.s. that was a horrible learning environment, and one that was pretty good.
My neighbors kids, here, not where my kids went to school, are homeschooled and I must say I am VERY impressed with them. Three GREAT kids, one conscientious mom-teacher. A community of homeschooling folks who work well together, and a good church environment, which helps with socialization. Academically they are pretty good. Scoially they are pretty good. The only thing that seems to be missing is a bit of realism ( being around kids who are not very nice ), and seeing that there are other ways of looking at things than just what they have been taught ( I don't know this for sure, but I suspect that these kids have been "protected" from certain teachings ). There is a certain isolation factor, in some cases.
I can see the appeal of home schooling, as long as there is a parent committed to putting so much effort into it. Even among good schools, consider how much time is totally wasted on behavior management in the classroom. Also, if you're in a classroom of 20 students (and back when I was in high school, I recall having at least 35 in a few of my classes), your child's learning has to fit in with the teacher accommodating those other 19 students. Some students might be really smart and fast; others might be much slower--and your child's needs will have to fit in with that.
I also think there is just something very unnatural about forcing a human being to sit still in a chair for 6 hours a day. We force children to do that, perhaps with the expectation that it will prepare them for when they have to sit for at least 8 hours a day at a office desk. But is that conductive to learning or just controlling behavior?
When I was in school, I was a very good student but I loathed having to sit for so long, and wait for so little from my teachers--and although I got excellent grades, I felt like I got very little from school. What I read outside of school was far more educational.
Having had that experience, if I had children, some things that would greatly appeal to me about home-schooling:
1) the opportunity to put an emphasis on independent thinking rather than getting an 'information dump.'
2) getting them to apply what they learn (lots of field trips, projects, etc.)
3) teaching them more at an earlier age (if your kid is ready for algebra a year or two earlier than most are getting it, why not teach earlier?)
4) spotting topics/subjects that they seem exceptionally interested in and encouraging that enthusiasm
5) communicating to them that learning is about curiosity, exploring ideas, problem-solving, self-confidence and accomplishment--and it is not about rules and 'meeting requirements.'
6) teaching additional subjects that seem to get less coverage in school (e.g., art, music, social skills, etc.)--even if this involves supplementing their home schooling with sending them to piano lessons twice a week or a class on table etiquette)
4) the cost savings of not having to pay for a private school
One thing that home schooling doesn't provide is socialization. If someone is homeschooling their kids, I think they need to get the kids involved in organized activities (e.g., community soccer or dance) where they will meet other kids, and then encourage the friendships that develop from there.
Another thing that home schooling doesn't provide is being able to learn from the learning of other children. In other words, sometimes you learn more from the questions that others are asking. This would be another good reason to supplement their home schooling with a 3rd-party class that would have multiple students in it--even if it's just a 'Spanish for Kids' class that meets 2-3 times a week at the local recreation center.
I have typed out two replies that obviously do not need to be shared. Comcast keeps resetting something. I do not have anything good to say about public schools. We will leave it at that. I remember the 70's and 80's well....kind of.
To each his own, and hopefully it isn't too late for your children, like it is for a couple of ours.
But, what I am saying is that in the homeschool kids that I have seen that have either come back to school full time or come to take a class, the social skills are lacking and there is a disconnect with the rest of the kids. I also deal a lot with transfer students who come from other schools so I know the difference.I am a guidance counselor and have a pretty keen insight as to reading kids socially and emotionally.
This confirms exactly what I've experienced. You are a professional with experience helping homeschooled kids integrate into a school environment.
Since I was enamored with homeschooling for awhile, I did my homework on it. The Illinois laws on homeschooling are quite liberal and, in Chicago, there are lots of resources, groups, etc... I read books, attended co-ops, a homeschoolers convention, a homeschool gym class at a rec center. I met with the director of the "Chicago Virtual Homeschool" and a director from a "Classical Latin Homeschool" program. I attended a homeschoolers skating party (for some reason, skating events are very popular with homeschoolers here). I am a soccer coach, a youth leader, a theater parent - there are homeschooled children that participate in all these activities. I meet homeschooled kids at the church, the library.... I have friends and neighbors that have homeschooled. And I have reached the same conclusion as a guidance counselor who specializes in this - In general, these kids are not as socially adept as kids who have attended a good formal school program.
I homeschooled my kids during the summer. In August, I asked them whether they would like to continue during the school year. They said they missed seeing their friends every day. This is what else I think they missed:
In reading, they missed class book discussions with the 8 peers in their reading group with 8 different viewpoints instead of the 1 viewpoint I could offer.
In writing, they missed journaling about what they had just learned about a classmate's Indian custom, or how they handled the bully in the playground, or their argument for convincing the principal to serve hot fudge sundaes for lunch, etc... All the real world life experiences that make a good writer.
In math, they missed the satisfaction of showing their peers how to solve a problem. Learning their friends may have alternate problem-solving strategies. Proudly displaying the math test they had aced.
In science, they missed learning about the 20 different science experiments their classmates conducted. And the chance to demonstrate their own experiment to everyone. And the 20 different hypothesis on why the sky is blue.
In social studies, they missed getting up in front of 20 kids and presenting about the Blackhawk War while trying not to be too nervous by picturing everyone in their underwear. And they missed learning from their 20 classmates' presentations.
In gym class, they missed being picked for the team and not being picked for the team. They missed playing soccer with kids of varying abilities (instead of only the ones good enough to make the afterschool travel soccer team).
In recess, they missed negotiating for their turn on the swing, joining an impromptu kickball game, participating in the cartwheel competition, learning 25 new jumprope songs, trading baseball cards...
In music, they missed learning to play the recorder in class, performing with their many school friends in the class band and the spring musical.
In art, they missed seeing how 20 different people interpret a bowl of fruit (impressionistic, abstract, etc.) and proudly posting their picture in the school gallery for everyone else to appreciate.
Are there things public schools could do better? OF COURSE. Can homeschoolers replicate some of the above experiences? OF COURSE.
But I urge parents who are disenfranchised with schools and considering homeschooling (and I've been there) to carefully weigh the benefits against the negative of removing a child from a social community they are a part of. There is much pro-homeschool literature out there fueled by a multi-million dollar homeschool publishing industry. Before homeschooling, consider 1.) Can I better advocate for my child in their existing school by: gaining access to special resources or differentiated materials or having them moved to a different ability group or teacher? 2.) Can we move our child to a better performing school (public, private or charter)? 3.) Can I supplement some academics (for us, this was mainly for math), thereby not giving up the social opportunities of a school enviroment?
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This is one of my biggest complaints.....why would a parent need to supplement w/ additional materials at home when their child is in a gifted program?...that's the whole point of the gifted program, since it is by nature, supposed to provide academic challenge and acceleration.?
Because, like all other kids, gifted kids have strengths/weaknesses AND gifted programs are not the same as accelerated curriculum. I am surprised one would question supplementing academic skills. I feel it is a parent's job to identify a child's strengths/weaknesses and, where necessary, supplement academics, athletics, social skills, etc... We supplement with music instruction, art classes, athletic coaches... why not academics?
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My daughter's class this quarter had more quizzes on fire safety, drug awareness, stanger danger, students "rights and responsibilites" etc than on actual academics....like suburban kids whose SES contains households with over 100k salaries, avg home prices of over 500k and many times both parents w/ a masters degree really NEED to hear how they should "not bring a firearm to school"........geez....
So kids from houses w/households over 100K don't need to hear about firearms, fire safety, drug awareness, etc... What??? Believe me, kids from upperclass communities need this information as much as kids from lower SES areas. Just open the newspaper to confirm this. Kids from all communities are confronted with decisions on weapons, drugs, etc... I attended a big 10 university with top students and there were drugs EVERYWHERE. Of course, my parents (who were teachers) told me not to do drugs, but when I saw the 20-year old DUI driver in a wheelchair during an 8th grade "Just Say NO" assembly, THAT made an impression. Do I mind that the school systems continually address these issues? Of course not. I have not found that it is at the expense of academics.
It's interesting how many homeschoolers think the public school system is indoctrinating our children. Yet, the most popular homeschool curricula (Bob Jones, A. Bekka, Alpha Omega, etc.) present science from only 1 perspective: Creationism. When do they expect kids to learn about the alternative theory of evolution that is highly accepted by the scientific community? I think a good program would introduce multiple theories for analysis (I wish all public schools would do this as well). My point is that indoctrination goes both ways.
I am also a professional, a business owner.... My EQ was just as important to my success as my IQ. My leadership skills, my creativity, my ability to network and compete with a large group of diverse peers was perfected during my public school years. In this multi-cultural, democratic, free market society that is our country - these skills are highly valued.
I also think there is just something very unnatural about forcing a human being to sit still in a chair for 6 hours a day...
.
Having had that experience, if I had children, some things that would greatly appeal to me about home-schooling:
1) the opportunity to put an emphasis on independent thinking rather than getting an 'information dump.'
2) getting them to apply what they learn (lots of field trips, projects, etc.)
3) teaching them more at an earlier age (if your kid is ready for algebra a year or two earlier than most are getting it, why not teach earlier?)
4) spotting topics/subjects that they seem exceptionally interested in and encouraging that enthusiasm
5) communicating to them that learning is about curiosity, exploring ideas, problem-solving, self-confidence and accomplishment--and it is not about rules and 'meeting requirements.'
6) teaching additional subjects that seem to get less coverage in school (e.g., art, music, social skills, etc.)--even if this involves supplementing their home schooling with sending them to piano lessons twice a week or a class on table etiquette)
I don't know of any school that makes kids sit in chairs for 6 hours a day. Educators know kids need breaks - that's why they change classes for gym, music, recess, etc. That's why many classrooms offer reading areas with beanbags chairs, etc.
There is not one thing on your list that we have not received from our school. Good teachers don't just do an "information dump" all day. They facilitate curiosity, problem-solving, self-confidence... We have field trips and projects ALL THE TIME.
I am sorry so many of you have had poor school experiences. I recommend that, for your child, you observe their classroom (I've done this quite a few times) and volunteer at the school to get the inside scoop. If the school is not meeting your needs, consider other alternatives before homeschooling. Make homeschooling the LAST option.
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....geez....
Believe me, kids from upperclass communities need this information as much as kids from lower SES areas. Just open the newspaper to confirm this. Kids from all communities are confronted with decisions on weapons, drugs, etc... I attended a big 10 university with top students and there were drugs EVERYWHERE. Of course, my parents (who were teachers) told me not to do drugs, but when I saw the 20-year old DUI driver in a wheelchair during an 8th grade "Just Say NO" assembly, THAT made an impression. Do I mind that the school systems continually address these issues? Of course not. I have not found that it is at the expense of academics. 
