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Old 09-21-2013, 07:58 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,812,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
I sub at a school whose goal this year is to increase the number of coaches and trophies won by the HS.
This school also sends it's middle school coaches on "scouting trips" to other districts.

Middle school coaches going on scouting trips for football.
How do they get away with being open about such things? Also-how do you enroll kids from other districts in your school? Isn't there a residency requirement?
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Old 09-21-2013, 08:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
I think the whole discussion here is whether it benefits the students at all. Just because they participate doesn't mean they are benefiting, and I believe they are not.
The entire purpose of school has been lost.
Why don't you think they are benefiting from playing sports? Do you think that eliminating scholarship opportunities is a benefit to students? Most student athletes have better GPAs than non athletes.

A High School Athlete's GPA Vs. Average High School Student's GPA | Everyday Life - Global Post

This is an older study but I can't see why it wouldn't still be valid:

Whitley Study

This one is a bit more recent.

http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/PDF/AcademicBenefits.pdf

On what basis do you conclude that student athletes do not benefit from sports?
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:32 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,767,204 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Why don't you think they are benefiting from playing sports? Do you think that eliminating scholarship opportunities is a benefit to students? Most student athletes have better GPAs than non athletes.

A High School Athlete's GPA Vs. Average High School Student's GPA | Everyday Life - Global Post

This is an older study but I can't see why it wouldn't still be valid:

Whitley Study

This one is a bit more recent.

http://www.kshsaa.org/Public/PDF/AcademicBenefits.pdf

On what basis do you conclude that student athletes do not benefit from sports?
The problem isn't with all athletes, but with those who get into college without proper academic preparation (mostly male basketball and football players). And with some colleges which allow athletes to keep up their gpas with *easy* courses.

UNC tolerated cheating, says insider Mary Willingham | UNC scandal | NewsObserver.com

Quote:
Some athletes told Willingham they had never read a book or written a paragraph, but they were placed in no-show classes that required a 20-page paper and came away with grades of B or better.
Quote:
Willingham, 51, said most of the athletes in the nonrevenue sports are capable of doing college-level work. But lowered academic standards for the football players and men’s basketball players – known as “special admits” – brought in athletes who lacked the academic ability, while still being expected to devote at least 20 hours a week to their sports.

She called that a dynamic destined to produce cheating. The special admissions go at least as far back as the early 1990s.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:40 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 23,812,076 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The problem isn't with all athletes, but with those who get into college without proper academic preparation (mostly male basketball and football players). And with some colleges which allow athletes to keep up their gpas with *easy* courses.

UNC tolerated cheating, says insider Mary Willingham | UNC scandal | NewsObserver.com
Listener2307 suggested that the student athletes in HIGH SCHOOL did not benefit from participating in sports. My post was meant to discuss the ways that high school student athletes benefit from athletic participation.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
Listener2307 suggested that the student athletes in HIGH SCHOOL did not benefit from participating in sports. My post was meant to discuss the ways that high school student athletes benefit from athletic participation.
Texas high-schoolers already receive academic credit for athletics "classes" offered during the school day—credit, that is, for watching game film or studying the playbook.

Somehow, I don't think those students are getting the education they should get. If these kids get out of high school without being able to read or get into college with this kind of education, exactly how do they benefit?
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:55 PM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
7,939 posts, read 7,289,299 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Texas high-schoolers already receive academic credit for athletics "classes" offered during the school day—credit, that is, for watching game film or studying the playbook.

Somehow, I don't think those students are getting the education they should get. If these kids get out of high school without being able to read or get into college with this kind of education, exactly how do they benefit?
We live in Pennsylvania and my kids play sports, and they don't study game films or playbooks during class time (or ever!).

To ban all high school sports because of what football programs in Texas do, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why not clean up Texas football if you have a beef with it?
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtab4994 View Post
We live in Pennsylvania and my kids play sports, and they don't study game films or playbooks during class time (or ever!).

To ban all high school sports because of what football programs in Texas do, is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Why not clean up Texas football if you have a beef with it?
I don't know for sure what other states and districts do now, but I know that back when I was in school, kids needed only a D+ average to play sports and many of the kids took the easiest courses they could take *and* often their grades were inflated by the teachers who happened to also be coaches. I hope that is not true anymore, but I don't believe it has changed all that much. (This was in New York state, btw).

I am not against sports, but I think they should be done in clubs rather than in school. My son played soccer and was good at it. However, in his high school, he ended up quitting because of the coach. His academics, btw, were outstanding, but that had little to do with playing sports.
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Old 09-21-2013, 11:40 PM
 
Location: The Midwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
I don't know for sure what other states and districts do now, but I know that back when I was in school, kids needed only a D+ average to play sports and many of the kids took the easiest courses they could take *and* often their grades were inflated by the teachers who happened to also be coaches. I hope that is not true anymore, but I don't believe it has changed all that much. (This was in New York state, btw).

I am not against sports, but I think they should be done in clubs rather than in school. My son played soccer and was good at it. However, in his high school, he ended up quitting because of the coach. His academics, btw, were outstanding, but that had little to do with playing sports.
Just what we need- an even larger gap between the poor and rich here in America. Not everyone can afford to play for private organizations, and I'd hate to see poor/middle class kids miss out on opportunities to play at a level their wealthier peers do simply because of finances.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:57 AM
 
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the author fails to mention how foreign exchange students also get to live out a dream in some cases by playing high schools sports. my junior year of high school we had a japanese exchange student who was very good at soccer. played on the varsity team but come spring time went out for the baseball team because as he put it, the idea of playing real baseball was beyond anything he could imagine back home. he didn't play much but for him it was the coolest thing since sliced bread to be able to put a uniform on and cleats and throw the ball around.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:24 AM
 
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As both a high school coach and teacher I can attack this from both angles I suppose. For those who are wondering no I don't teach PE or a non-licensed class just so I can coach either. I teach AP European History and for the last 10 years I've been involved with sports such as baseball (1 year), head wrestling coach (6 years), asst. wrestling coach (4 years), asst. track and field coach (2 years) and head boys swim coach (4 years). I teach in South Carolina. Certainly not a state known at least not well known for it's scholastic athletic programs, at least not on a national level. So anyways there are my credentials if you will.

I would point out first each state and each district have varying agendas when it comes to their scholastic athletic programs. Some communities certainly value athletic achievement more so than others. Some certainly have experienced high levels of athletic success in their communities. You see this in the community itself more often than not in a multitude of mediums and methods. To blanket the country on what is perceived based on a handful of examples is yet again another untrue indictment of the American education system. For every community that votes a levy to renovate or build a brand new stadium there are several more that vote to cut out athletic expenditures. Type in "pay to play / ohio high school sports" into google and see how many hits one gets in regards to how many districts in that state, especially suburban ones have cut out sports programs financially and passed the entire buck on to the parents and off of the community tax payer. Several urban districts in the midwest have made financial decisions over the years when it comes to athletics and more often than not they opt to cut rather than improve. For every jumbotron scoreboard or luxury box suite there dozens of schools that treat scholastic athletics as nothing more than glorified intramurals.

State athletic associations go to great lengths to ensure the quality of their product is not tainted but can only do so much. These governing bodies are also independent from their state legislatures and historically have been tied to their public state universities (i.e. Texas and South Carolina). They set up rules regarding eligibility from an academic standpoint as well as from a residency standpoint. However, with that being said ultimately these issues lie with the community, the parent, the student athlete and the school. A school is a reflection of it's community. Believe me, if the community desires a top notch athletic program then it will get one. You can't tell a community what it's priorities will or will not be. That is for them to decide and not you or I.

Finally, I don't for a second believe that scholastic athletic programs are trumping academics in our nations schools. Again for every horror story one hears there are dozens that are not heard and or are ignored because they do not fit into what people have as far as a preconceived notion is concerned. People want to believe or think that Texas academics are so poor because of a mismanaged priority when it comes to high school football. How then does one explain the fact that that state in question has some of the finest public secondary and higher educational institutions in the country? Trust em they won't explain it because it does not fit into what they want to believe.

Sports interested me from the very beginning. I enjoyed playing them in high school for a variety of reasons. I grew up in a middle class home with no socioeconomic or psychological issues to speak of as a hurdle to my maturation, but had it not been for sports I would've came home every day and been bored out of my freaking mind. Sorry, academic team or Mathletes does not get me pumped up.

I get the feeling sometimes that we as individuals spend way too much time worrying about things that are greater than ourselves and if we spent more time concentrated on how we can fix our own $%^& then maybe collectively society would make some headway on these issues. Sadly it is easier to theorize reasons for our social lot in life and cast off irrational proposals as to how is to blame bit provide no REAL solutions as to how to fix the problem.

High school sports are fine right where they are as is America's academic standing.

The End.
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