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Old 10-08-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Shawnee-on-Delaware, PA
1,453 posts, read 950,904 times
Reputation: 1903

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Joseph Lyssikatos, Rhode Island seventh-grader, suspended for toy gun keychain

Part of me is expecting more facts to come out exonerating the administration or mitigating the seeming draconian nature of the punishment.

And part of me wonders why school administrators, even if they feel justified and claim it's not just zero-tolerance and that this kid has a history, etc., would choose this incident as the straw that breaks the camel's back?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
2,915 posts, read 1,712,646 times
Reputation: 4678
The school has a "zero tolerance for guns and gun replicas". The key chain is a replica, and zero tolerance means just that.

Having been a middle school teacher, I know that most seventh graders can certainly understand the concept of "zero tolerance". I also know that some will try to test the limits of the concept.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:51 AM
 
4,563 posts, read 4,185,629 times
Reputation: 5174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
The school has a "zero tolerance for guns and gun replicas". The key chain is a replica, and zero tolerance means just that.

Having been a middle school teacher, I know that most seventh graders can certainly understand the concept of "zero tolerance". I also know that some will try to test the limits of the concept.
No, it is not.

Something that is the size of a quarter is in no way a replica.

Replica - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Quote:
1
: an exact reproduction (as of a painting) executed by the original artist <a replica of this was painted … this year — Constance Strachey>
2
: a copy exact in all details <DNA makes a replica of itself> <sailed a replica of the Viking ship>; broadly : copy <this faithful, pathetic replica of a Midwestern suburb — G. F. Kennan>
This is simple absurdity, and sounds like the administrators need to go back to school! (Along with a certain middle school teacher!)
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:43 PM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,706 posts, read 1,790,299 times
Reputation: 1828
"Please put that toy back in your backpack."
'No.'
"Put that away or you will get a detention."
'No.'
"Fine, go to the principal, you have a detention"

...

'My child is not going to a serve a detention for a toy gun.'
"Then he will be suspended."
'Well, he is not serving that detention.'

... Child gets suspended. Parent goes to news media. News media shows up at school.

"Why was this child suspended, was it because of zero tolerance?"
'We cannot comment on a specific disciplinary action'
"The parent says he was only suspended because of your zero tolerance policy on gun replicas."
'We cannot comment on a specific disciplinary action'
"Can we see your policy on guns and gun replicas?"
'Here it is.'

... "School officials pointed to their policy on gun replicas."
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
2,915 posts, read 1,712,646 times
Reputation: 4678
Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
"Please put that toy back in your backpack."
'No.'
"Put that away or you will get a detention."
'No.'
"Fine, go to the principal, you have a detention"

...

'My child is not going to a serve a detention for a toy gun.'
"Then he will be suspended."
'Well, he is not serving that detention.'

... Child gets suspended. Parent goes to news media. News media shows up at school.

"Why was this child suspended, was it because of zero tolerance?"
'We cannot comment on a specific disciplinary action'
"The parent says he was only suspended because of your zero tolerance policy on gun replicas."
'We cannot comment on a specific disciplinary action'
"Can we see your policy on guns and gun replicas?"
'Here it is.'

... "School officials pointed to their policy on gun replicas."
That was my first thought about how it went down, too. I would also bet that said "innocent" child has done this BS before.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:21 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
676 posts, read 312,026 times
Reputation: 1416
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
The school has a "zero tolerance for guns and gun replicas". The key chain is a replica, and zero tolerance means just that.

Having been a middle school teacher, I know that most seventh graders can certainly understand the concept of "zero tolerance". I also know that some will try to test the limits of the concept.

It does. Zero tolerance. That's it.

Now will come the part where someone will say that I'm "PC" or a "liberal" or that I "don't love guns".

They will be right on all counts. Instruments of death or replicas of them do not belong in schools.
There is a zero tolerance policy for drugs in schools. What if a kid brought in some corn starch and a straw and pretended to snort it?

Would everyone be all "up in arms" them? Cocaine. Guns. Neither belong in schools or in my life.

The school was right.
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Old 10-08-2013, 01:28 PM
 
4,563 posts, read 4,185,629 times
Reputation: 5174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
That was my first thought about how it went down, too. I would also bet that said "innocent" child has done this BS before.
So now we can add groundless, baseless speculation to everything else....
So glad you "Don't know what happened" but are quick to 'guess'!

Too bad there are mutable examples of the moronic 'Zero tolerance'

Zero-tolerance can mean zero due process - The Boston Globe

Jordan Bennett Suspended From School For Pretend Finger Gun

Parents Furious After Boys Suspended For Using Fingers As Guns CBS Baltimore

Nonprofit Petitions U.S. Supreme Court to Hear Zero Tolerance Case: Rural School & Community Trust



Guess we need to chop off some fingers!!!!
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Old 10-09-2013, 07:34 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,706 posts, read 1,790,299 times
Reputation: 1828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname View Post
So now we can add groundless, baseless speculation to everything else....
Except that teachers are all too familiar with the pattern above and it is extremely common. Far more common than "zero tolerance" incidents. We have a generation of parents who believe that teachers are inherently wrong. So when a teacher hands their kid a detention, they refuse to allow their kids to serve it and force the school to issue a suspension instead.
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:27 PM
 
4,563 posts, read 4,185,629 times
Reputation: 5174
Quote:
Originally Posted by kellberet View Post
In this age he take toy gun in school and in the age of 20 he take real gun fire.. you have to punish that child.
I played with toy guns as a kid (including "finger guns" as detailed and punished in the links I have posted)
I went on.... Not to "take real gun fire", (whatever that means) but instead joined the Marine Corps and was decorated for valor in Iraq.

As to the other poster... Thank you for admitting WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENED!
But... As the links I provided show... It is anything but reasonable.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:43 AM
 
Location: St Louis, MO
2,706 posts, read 1,790,299 times
Reputation: 1828
Of the 6 cases in the links, only the Montgomery County (which was reversed) and Spotsylvania (which is going to court) cases have any evidence that the children involved were suspended under zero tolerance policies or were even suspended for violence. The parents says their children were suspended for that reason, but the district either said nothing, or in the 8-year old case specifically said the child was not suspended for violence (and that was only because the parent released the child's record, not because the district did).
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