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Old 11-04-2013, 11:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parentologist View Post
I think it's a relatively recent phenomenon. Before the immigration laws were changed, I recall being in school with classmates whose forbears had come from China and Japan. They were pure Asian, but third or fourth generation. They were not particularly good students - seemed like everyone else.

On the other hand, the children of the recent immigrants from Asia are often bright and very driven to achieve. Completely different type of student. It will be interesting to see if their children are just as high achievers.
Very smart people usually produce just-so-so children.

 
Old 11-04-2013, 11:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcl View Post
Among top 5 in math scores (PISA 2009), 4 are Chinese societies: Shanghai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan! And the other is South Korea, which is heavily influenced by Chinese culture.

Imagine if China divides into small countries like Europe, they will probably take all top 20.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 04:31 AM
 
Location: Volunteer State
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I'm not sure what many posters here are referring to when you say "recent". But here's my take/experience.

My academic team has just gone through a single-elimination tournament (much like the NCAA hoops tourny), and we made it to the final 8. Of the teams that remained in the final four - we lost in the quarter-finals - the vast majority of team members/starters were Asian or Indian. My team was the only one remaining that had 4 starters made entirely of kids of European backgrounds. I've been coaching this team for well over a decade and I've seen the same results fairly consistantly - there have been a few exceptions, including my own team's success - since I've started. This post reminded me of another thread in here concerning the make-up/nationality of the teams consistanly winning the Science Olympiad.

Even my own students/players have asked me about this: is it because they are smarter? Do they learn everything easier? Or is it a cultural thing, in which they grow up in a household environment that stresses this type of achievement? We even talked about whether there was a difference between the 1st generation immigrants and the 3rd/4th/5th generation counterparts. On this last one, I really didn't know. What about you guys/gals?
 
Old 11-05-2013, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
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Just to share -
GOOD Transparency: Education in America - YouTube

Asians as well as most of the Middle East learn differently, they use rote memorization like a "Kumon" style of learning in math and science, grammar. Even after immigrating to the U.S., they still teach their children this way. It's great for testing, and very successful. It has nothing to do with I.Q. but determination, "grit", is taught from a young age as well. That we lack here.
Angela Lee Duckworth: The key to success? Grit | Video on TED.com
I would recommend watching this TED video, it's eye opening.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 09:13 AM
 
47,957 posts, read 38,592,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sj08054 View Post
A lot of the Chinese student that are coming over the US for school isn't necessarily the really smart ones. It's very competitive in China and if they can't get into a good college over there, the come to the school here.

The big difference now is that these student speaks fluent English.

Asian American scores has increased over the years to the point that it been on par or surpassed White. Internationally (American, all groups) is scores below Asian Countries.
That's because unlike most asian countries the US tends to test everybody and we don't boot the lower tier students out to trade schools or to work in factories making iphones.

China in particular reported thier international scores solely based upon one part of the country because they wanted to be #1 in the world rankings out of national pride. I've got friends in Beijing and here in the states and we all know the way things work.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 09:20 AM
 
47,957 posts, read 38,592,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starman71 View Post
I'm not sure what many posters here are referring to when you say "recent". But here's my take/experience.

My academic team has just gone through a single-elimination tournament (much like the NCAA hoops tourny), and we made it to the final 8. Of the teams that remained in the final four - we lost in the quarter-finals - the vast majority of team members/starters were Asian or Indian. My team was the only one remaining that had 4 starters made entirely of kids of European backgrounds. I've been coaching this team for well over a decade and I've seen the same results fairly consistantly - there have been a few exceptions, including my own team's success - since I've started. This post reminded me of another thread in here concerning the make-up/nationality of the teams consistanly winning the Science Olympiad.

Even my own students/players have asked me about this: is it because they are smarter? Do they learn everything easier? Or is it a cultural thing, in which they grow up in a household environment that stresses this type of achievement? We even talked about whether there was a difference between the 1st generation immigrants and the 3rd/4th/5th generation counterparts. On this last one, I really didn't know. What about you guys/gals?
I think it's a 1st/2nd generation thing and then starts to fade.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: New York NY
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I think that a lot of the difference we see in strong Asian performance is due to the "immigration effect." That is a lot of folks who come to the US are very driven in terms of their kids academic success. You see the same phenomena, at least here in my part of the country, among the children of first generation immigrants from many parts of the world including the countries of sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East, and parts of the Caribbean. It's also very much true in metro NYC among South Asians and Koreans. So I too wonder whether this same high level of academic success will carry over to later generations. I think I've seen studies that it does not, and that later generations settle down to typical "American" levels of performance. But I can't recall the study where I read that.

The success of children from Asian cultures also benefits in many instances from the historic role of testing in some countries, espeically China, with its long history of Imperial exams for the civil service that stretches back thousand sof years. The testing thing, which so many kids elsewhere rebel and worry over is at least culturally a natural part of life for these kids and they're more comfortable with it. They also had similar tests historically in Korea.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 09:35 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
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The Indian American community is very much education- and status-driven. For most Indians, getting the chance to immigrate to the U.S. is basically like winning the lottery.

So, naturally once they're here their whole purpose is to do whatever they can to make sure they and their children become as affluent as possible. In modern times, that means being very competitive in the pursuit of higher education. It all makes sense if you think about it.
 
Old 11-05-2013, 12:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Not quite true. Before WWII, most Chinese immigrants were Cantonese peasants with little education.
Many of them came to the US to build railways etc.

After WWII, the US literally banned immigration of "low quality" Asians but some sneaked in.
For your interest, among Chinese green card receivers each year, only a minority have an advanced degree. Most are through (faked) asylums, or depend on relatives.
I won't dispute your knowledge of the statistics - but is it safe to say that that an influx of well educated Asians coming over here to continue their education have to take standardized tests such as the MPRE, LSAT, MCAT, etc?

As such, that will skew the statistics in favor of Asians.

On the subject of SATs, the disparity between Asians and Whites is 42 points - 1583 to 1621. Not much of a gap, really. about 2-3%
 
Old 11-05-2013, 02:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombocom View Post

On the subject of SATs, the disparity between Asians and Whites is 42 points - 1583 to 1621. Not much of a gap, really. about 2-3%
The stats are probably based on American citizens, which excludes Asian nationals. But I agree that new Asian immigrants tend to have high level of education.
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