Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17
The above statement is pure projection. It's you people who are repeating things ad nauseam in the face of mounting contrary evidence.
Name a larger or more diverse country that has better outcomes than this country on average? Finland? Nope. Singapore? Thanks for the laugh. Hong Kong? Surely you jest. The Netherlands? Try again.
And please check the data, "privileged whites" (actually "privileged" and even middle class folks regardless of race) in this country outscore their peers in nations worldwide.
The Principal Difference: A School Leadership Blog by Mel Riddile: PISA: It's Poverty Not Stupid |
Clevelander,
This is interesting - but here are some things to consider.
First, I didn't say that other countries are EVEN MORE diverse than the US. I only said that the US doesn't have a monopoly on "diversity" and I implied that good outcomes, on average, can be achieved with "diversity" too if the public schools use a solid curriculum and quality, well-prepared specialists to deliver it.
Finland does it, other countries do it - even in sectors/areas filled with immigrants of all sorts.
I just don't think that "diversity" is a good enough cover for the fact that curriculum in American public schools tends to be weak, sloppy, non-rigorous, all over the place, not steeped in a solid theoretical foundation, and not backed by well-written, discipline-based textbooks - but random flying sheets.
All foreign exchange students who come here call it "easy"!
This seems to be the case even for many private schools - but these can vary so much and I don't know enough about what happens there to form a solid opinion.
What I see in the Pisa evidence you brought is the following: namely, that Americans in privileged areas CAN be significantly pumped up at home for a standardized test. That - I can believe.
This, however, says very little about curriculum itself and the overall quality of education in the country. Not only does performance of a privileged chunk of the population on a standardized test is far from being a good indicator of curriculum quality and adequate delivery, but that should actually signal the fact that such children probably achieved those results exactly because they were pumped up with targeted tutoring at home, trained to the test, and aided with lots of additional materials that supplement the sloppy education available in class - all so they can achieve high scores on the standardized test!
This is the whole point many people seem to be missing:
1) first, you cannot MEASURE your way to a well-educated, competent, independently thinking population, especially not if your inputs are weak (not that the global powers really want to create this type of population, but that's a different story).
2) you cannot keep pointing to the the poverty/privilege factor to deflect attention from the weaknesses of schools themselves. I mean, you CAN, but you shouldn't.
So what is the implication of this "top standardized test performance of the population in areas with less than 10% poverty"?
Somehow arrange that everyone becomes middle-upper class so that ALL parents will be able to hire tutors and pump the kids at home and thus make up for the weaknesses of the curriculum delivered in class?; so that ALL of the kids will score high on Pisa and so we can all call it a day?
And if this was even remotely possible (hey, I will be the first to sign up for a prosperous and relatively equal population across the board!)...what have we achieved? High scores on a standardizes test like Pisa? And? So what?
That still doesn't change the fact that children are asked to identify adjectives in a text, out of the blue, without having being given a theoretical definition of what an adjective is, without having such grammar concepts introduced to them in a book - logically, methodically, systematically, AND theoretically, lesson by lesson - so they can develop the ability to think abstractly? Just an example that came to mind.
How about something along the lines of a grammar textbook containing clearly laid out lessons, with theoretical definitions, progressing logically based on the discipline's canon, with theoretical explanations such as "a noun is the name of a place, person, thing or idea"?, followed by examples for each, followed by exercises where the children can practice identifying nouns and types of nouns (common, proper) - which were clearly explained to them theoretically, at first?.
How about such textbooks being made available to parents too instead of throwing at them some general, all-over-the place "state standards" that are NOT discipline-driven, clearly not formulated by specialists (in the above case, linguists) but just a hodge-podge of information popping up when you least expect it and in no particular order?
(
Dear school, please send home whatever darn textbook you're working off of so we can know what in the world is really going on, front to end?)
Same for Math or the other elementary school subjects.
Never mind that whatever the schools call "Social Studies" is mere bricolage of random and often developmentally inappropriate information (a lot of it sheer propaganda and indoctrination), thrown at them in no particular order, that means absolutely ZERO to the kids or can be easily misconstrued and misinterpreted.
In the end, you can bring all the PISA evidence you want - but a curriculum formulated like this is a sucky curriculum, no matter how you twist it - and it is a flaw of the school, not of the parent population!!
Ultimately, the mark of a good and truly well-meaning education system is one that takes a born-Godforsaken and elevates him/her to a better person, with more life chances than birth allowed; not one that perpetuates the class structure by pointing fingers to "poverty" and other perceived family inadequacies as the main reason for poor performance and by rewarding "tutoring-to-the-test" at home.
Perhaps schools should, once and for all, walk away with this lesson: the mother in the ghetto was not put on this Earth to do high level of academics with her kid!! Least of all to tell her kid that "a noun indicates the name of place, person, thing or idea" - something you, dear school, failed to do when it was actually YOUR job!!
Contrary to popular wisdom, it is NOT her job to do that! There's only so much "parental involvement" you can rely on when it comes to education!
Moreover, have you asked parents if they are really ABLE or even WILLING to supplement so much for the school?
Apparently, the ghetto mother's job is to do crack, not to talk about nouns; or, without getting so extreme, to work those two-three jobs a day that barely require being able to articulate 3 words.
You'll not be able to change that, no matter how many fingers you point - and definitely not within the framework of a free market system; but you might consider giving HER kid a chance.
And even if you changed that, and all parents suddenly became prosperous - either working in awesome careers or staying at home to fuss over their children's education; it would STILL not be the parents' job - be they rich parents! - to supplement a sloppy curriculum!!
So let's start with the beginning:
1. STEP 1: put together a serious curriculum.
2. STEP 2: hire specialists who graduated from intellectually-demanding schools, with intellectually-demanding degrees (as in "may I have a mathematician teach math to my kid as opposed to a coach?")
3. STEP 3: improve delivery of curriculum with adequate and transparent textbooks that parents have daily access to (if you still want to keep those willing and able - involved in their children's education; no the "bake sale" doesn't count as real "involvement").
4 STEP 4:...while you're at it, get rid of those random, very, very obnoxious flying sheets that come home every day and beg for the trash. Send a textbook and a notebook instead - so both student and parent can see progress, front to end.
There. We fixed it.
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