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I am just making the point that to receive spec ed services, a child has to be severely impacted by a disability so when people say ADHD is over diagnosed... that doesn't matter. ADHD students attend mainstream classes and many take medication. Even if autism is over diagnosed, that doesn't matter either because Spec Ed services are provided on a case by case basis. Most districts are not "over serving" the spec Ed community. We sure are some people's scape goat when complaining about school district budgeting, though.
It does matter.
1) Incorrect diagnosis means incorrect treatment and/or intervention.
2) ADHD diagnosis mean being drugged instead of behavior modification (better known as discipline) in too many cases.
3) Being labeled disabled radically changes the school ability to discipline a student and impacts the way a school can evaluate or grade a student.
4) Too often what used to be acknowledged as "boys being boys" is now considered ADHD.
5) If a child is labeled disabled, if nothing else, it creates a mountain of paperwork for the school.
6) Having a child labeled as disabled gives a parent rights that the parent of average students are not afforded. Some of those parents make demands that are not cost effective and/or appropriate. Worse, some of those demands negatively impact other students.
7) A child who requires a one-on-one aide, that cost on average $14,000/year two years ago in my little rural district, are budget killers. Having to pay over $50,000 a year to a private school for one student is a budget killer.
8) It costs a lot more to educate students that require a 1:8 teacher/student ratio than those that require a 1:35 ratio.
9) From 2005 to 2010 there was a 12.5% increase in the percentage of students being labled special education. The jump from 1980 to 2005 was a lot more.
Special education isn't the only budgeting issue schools face but it is far, far, far more expensive than it was before the 80's and continues to get more expensive. Forcing public schools to pay for private school when public services exist is ludicrous.
In 1997, Tom Freston, then the CEO of MTV, began a legal battle with the New York City Board of Education. His then 8 year-old son, a student at the Stephen Gaynor School, a specialized school on Manhattan's Upper West Side, was found to have a moderate learning disability. The city offered the boy a spot at PS 77, Lower Laboratory School for Gifted Education, which has classes for students with that level of disability.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 01-16-2014 at 06:07 AM..
Reason: added link, cut quote to TOS limits
1) Incorrect diagnosis means incorrect treatment and/or intervention.
2) ADHD diagnosis mean being drugged instead of behavior modification (better known as discipline) in too many cases.
3) Being labeled disabled radically changes the school ability to discipline a student and impacts the way a school can evaluate or grade a student.
4) Too often what used to be acknowledged as "boys being boys" is now considered ADHD.
5) If a child is labeled disabled, if nothing else, it creates a mountain of paperwork for the school.
6) Having a child labeled as disabled gives a parent rights that the parent of average students are not afforded. Some of those parents make demands that are not cost effective and/or appropriate. Worse, some of those demands negatively impact other students.
7) A child who requires a one-on-one aide, that cost on average $14,000/year two years ago in my little rural district, are budget killers. Having to pay over $50,000 a year to a private school for one student is a budget killer.
8) It costs a lot more to educate students that require a 1:8 teacher/student ratio than those that require a 1:35 ratio.
9) From 2005 to 2010 there was a 12.5% increase in the percentage of students being labled special education. The jump from 1980 to 2005 was a lot more.
Special education isn't the only budgeting issue schools face but it is far, far, far more expensive than it was before the 80's and continues to get more expensive. Forcing public schools to pay for private school when public services exist is ludicrous.
I don't think you read my post or understood what I said. In Portland, OR, diagnosis of a learning disability is not enough to warrant an IEP. I know many children that are medically diagnosed with ADHD and do not have an IEP with PPS. These children receive no spec ed services. Every state and district is different. My son is not high functioning right now but is at a very important developmental stage where Spec Ed can make a huge impact on his speech, academic success, social awareness. Spec Ed is doing just that. My son is clearly Autistic but hey, what do the experts know? What do I, as his mother, know? YOU clearly know all about a
every Spec.Ed case there is. People are individuals. Treat them as such.
I don't think you read my post or understood what I said. In Portland, OR, diagnosis of a learning disability is not enough to warrant an IEP. I know many children that are medically diagnosed with ADHD and do not have an IEP with PPS. These children receive no spec ed services. Every state and district is different. My son is not high functioning right now but is at a very important developmental stage where Spec Ed can make a huge impact on his speech, academic success, social awareness. Spec Ed is doing just that. My son is clearly Autistic but hey, what do the experts know? What do I, as his mother, know? YOU clearly know all about a
every Spec.Ed case there is. People are individuals. Treat them as such.
Typically ADD/HD is treated as a 504 issue rather than an IEP issue. The student has a medical condition which interferes with his education, it's not necessarily a disability but an impediment to learning.
Special Ed with an IEP is more geared to students who have lower (below average) cognitive abilities rather than a disability.
I don't think you read my post or understood what I said. In Portland, OR, diagnosis of a learning disability is not enough to warrant an IEP. I know many children that are medically diagnosed with ADHD and do not have an IEP with PPS. These children receive no spec ed services. Every state and district is different. My son is not high functioning right now but is at a very important developmental stage where Spec Ed can make a huge impact on his speech, academic success, social awareness. Spec Ed is doing just that. My son is clearly Autistic but hey, what do the experts know? What do I, as his mother, know? YOU clearly know all about a
every Spec.Ed case there is. People are individuals. Treat them as such.
This is not just Oregon, it is that way everywhere. You can't get a child "classified" special ed just because they have a diagnosis, they have to be a certain number of levels below their expected development in several subject areas (not school subjects, but standardized tests for cognition, fine motor skills, etc). Kids who are not far behind their peers but have a diagnosis of ADD, etc, either get nothing or they get what's called a 504 Plan, which allows modifications such as extra time on tests, but no special services.
Typically ADD/HD is treated as a 504 issue rather than an IEP issue. The student has a medical condition which interferes with his education, it's not necessarily a disability but an impediment to learning.
Special Ed with an IEP is more geared to students who have lower (below average) cognitive abilities rather than a disability.
That may be true in your state but I know at least ten kids with ADHD and they do not have a 504 because they are accommodated without one. I know students with dyslexia who gave an IEP which stands for Individualized education plan. Most dyslexics have average to higher than average cognitive abilities. Dyslexia does not affect one's intelligence. I have friends whose kids have 504 plans to accommodate for Type one diabetes care. My son has autism, which is a developmental disability so he has an IEP. He is quite intelligent. He is starting to flourish in his contained Spec ed class with a few hours of mainstream kinder. He is learning quite well.
That may be true in your state but I know at least ten kids with ADHD and they do not have a 504 because they are accommodated without one. I know students with dyslexia who gave an IEP which stands for Individualized education plan. Most dyslexics have average to higher than average cognitive abilities. Dyslexia does not affect one's intelligence. I have friends whose kids have 504 plans to accommodate for Type one diabetes care. My son has autism, which is a developmental disability so he has an IEP. He is quite intelligent. He is starting to flourish in his contained Spec ed class with a few hours of mainstream kinder. He is learning quite well.
If they're being accommodated without a 504 then it's been determined that one is not necessary to implement the accommodations.
What you don't seem to be catching is that 504 Plans and IEPs are not a "state" issue but a federal one. IDEA and subsequent additions to it.
Implementing a 504 for ADD/HD qualifies the kid for SSI, by the way. Being cognitively challenged (retarded is what it used to be called) does not.
You do realize that you are arguing with several teachers right now, many of whom teach Special Ed?
1) Incorrect diagnosis means incorrect treatment and/or intervention.
I agree with this
2) ADHD diagnosis mean being drugged instead of behavior modification (better known as discipline) in too many cases.
A child who has ADHD can be helped by discipline and cognitive therapy, but.. he often needs meds as well. Would you deny a diabetic his insulin? It is the same thing. Just because a disability is behavioral and neurologically dxed does not mean that meds can be ruled out. Now, ADHD can be misdiagnosed and in that case, meds are a problem, but true ADHD often requires medication.
3) Being labeled disabled radically changes the school ability to discipline a student and impacts the way a school can evaluate or grade a student.
Only if the school does not understand how to write an IEP so that the student can be evaluated and disciplined properly.
Schools have the responsibility to make sure that all children attending, including those receiving special education and related services, are familiar with the discipline code and that their families also have the opportunity to know and understand the code. Parents of children with disabilities should be given the
opportunity to discuss the discipline code when it is a concern for their child and to be partners in finding effective ways of assisting in maintaining the code and its intent. Parents are allies in helping predict problems related to codes of conduct and their individual child’s strengths and needs. Such discussions can generate IEP goals as well as necessary exceptions that may prevent the child from meeting a requirement of the school’s code.
4) Too often what used to be acknowledged as "boys being boys" is now considered ADHD.
Boyish behavior isn’t the issue; it is the frequency and intensity of the behavior.
5) If a child is labeled disabled, if nothing else, it creates a mountain of paperwork for the school.
Yes, because, unfortunately schools often do not comply with the IEP without monitoring by the state.
6) Having a child labeled as disabled gives a parent rights that the parent of average students are not afforded. Some of those parents make demands that are not cost effective and/or appropriate. Worse, some of those demands negatively impact other students.
Some, possibly, but if you are the parent of a disabled child whose rights are being violated, you must advocate for him or her. Schools do not have to give in to unreasonable demands, but they must evaluate and place students appropriately.
7) A child who requires a one-on-one aide, that cost on average $14,000/year two years ago in my little rural district, are budget killers. Having to pay over $50,000 a year to a private school for one student is a budget killer.
If that same child is not educated, the taxpayer will pay for his adult care. That actually costs a lot more.
8) It costs a lot more to educate students that require a 1:8 teacher/student ratio than those that require a 1:35 ratio.
A 1:35 ratio is generally not good for any child (I was in classes with a 1:25 ratio even back in the 50s, except for the two years I was in Catholic school with a 1:65 ratio which was awful).
9) From 2005 to 2010 there was a 12.5% increase in the percentage of students being labeled special education. The jump from 1980 to 2005 was a lot more.
Special education isn't the only budgeting issue schools face but it is far, far, far more expensive than it was before the 80's and continues to get more expensive. Forcing public schools to pay for private school when public services exist is ludicrous.
I agree that special education is expensive, but... not educating our disabled population is much more expensive and not allowing them out into the general population is not a good alternative except in very severe cases. Back when I was in school, kids with disabilities were often kept at home and not educated or placed in institutions or placed in special education classrooms that did not teach them any academics at all even when they were able to learn.
My grandson has autism. He was nonverbal at 5, so he went to the special needs preK and they mainstreamed him into K with an aide for part of the day. He was fully included in a regular classroom in K, 1st and 2nd grade with special ed pullouts to a small class for some academic work. He is currently in 3rd grade in a regular classroom where the special ed teachers come into the class to work with him. Guess what - he is now verbal and social and getting Cs, Bs and As on regular classroom work and he continues to make fantastic progress. We expect him to be able to live on his own and to have a job. He may or may not go to college (we are not sure how far behind he might be given his academic problems with reading, but we fully expect him to get a regular high school diploma though he might take longer than the NT students).
If they're being accommodated without a 504 then it's been determined that one is not necessary to implement the accommodations.
What you don't seem to be catching is that 504 Plans and IEPs are not a "state" issue but a federal one. IDEA and subsequent additions to it.
Implementing a 504 for ADD/HD qualifies the kid for SSI, by the way. Being cognitively challenged (retarded is what it used to be called) does not.
You do realize that you are arguing with several teachers right now, many of whom teach Special Ed?
I am pretty familiar with The Americans with Disabilities Act and section 504 of The Rehabilitation Act and yes, I know these are federal laws. I have been advocating for my children for many years. I deal with more than one disability in our home. I am saying that not all kids with dyslexia receive an IEP here in Oregon. My daughter's friend had an IEP when she was first diagnosed, then she scored high enough on the Statewide tests that the IEP was not "renewed"(?) the next year. I was trying to make a point to a poster that implied over diagnosis was impacting budgets for school districts. My point was that just because a student is diagnosed with dyslexia, for example, does not mean the student is eligible for an IEP. I am using my daughter's friend as an example here. I have a child with an IEP and a child with a 504. Neither of them are "cognitively challenged".
A child who has ADHD can be helped by discipline and cognitive therapy, but.. he often needs meds as well. Would you deny a diabetic his insulin? It is the same thing. Just because a disability is behavioral and neurologically dxed does not mean that meds can be ruled out. Now, ADHD can be misdiagnosed and in that case, meds are a problem, but true ADHD often requires medication.
I have ZERO issue with a child who needs ADHD medication having it. For kids who need the medication because they really have ADHD it can radically alter the quality of their lives in ways that have a lifelong impact to their self esteem. It is when they are medicated simply because it makes it easier for the adults in their lives that it ticks me off. I will never forget the first time I ran into this - I had a student who was off all medication for three weeks in order to change his medication. Five of his 6 teachers, including myself, told the mother that he was actually doing great in school, that he seemed so much happier, participated in discussions more, showed a lot of creative thinking, and we thought he could do without it. His mother informed us that no, he needed the medication, because he couldn't get his room cleaned up without her nagging him when he was off his medication. I was livid and as far as I am concerned that was child abuse, and naïve as I was at the time I even reported it to CPS. Of course, nothing happened with that. Sadly, he wasn't my last male student that was medicated simply to make him docile - whether for the convenience of his parents or, more often, the school.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
3) Being labeled disabled radically changes the school ability to discipline a student and impacts the way a school can evaluate or grade a student.
Only if the school does not understand how to write an IEP so that the student can be evaluated and disciplined properly.
Quote: Schools have the responsibility to make sure that all children attending, including those receiving special education and related services, are familiar with the discipline code and that their families also have the opportunity to know and understand the code. Parents of children with disabilities should be given the opportunity to discuss the discipline code when it is a concern for their child and to be partners in finding effective ways of assisting in maintaining the code and its intent. Parents are allies in helping predict problems related to codes of conduct and their individual child’s strengths and needs. Such discussions can generate IEP goals as well as necessary exceptions that may prevent the child from meeting a requirement of the school’s code.
Unless you have a district that has a policy that doing so is not worth the possible trouble to central office - I have worked for a couple of them. I have also encountered parents who are lightening quick to say their kid can only be suspended 10 days. The most aggravating is when the kid tells school personnel that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
4) Too often what used to be acknowledged as "boys being boys" is now considered ADHD.
Boyish behavior isn’t the issue; it is the frequency and intensity of the behavior.
I know that. Unfortunately, not everyone does including parents of said children and some educators.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
6) Having a child labeled as disabled gives a parent rights that the parent of average students are not afforded. Some of those parents make demands that are not cost effective and/or appropriate. Worse, some of those demands negatively impact other students.
Some, possibly, but if you are the parent of a disabled child whose rights are being violated, you must advocate for him or her. Schools do not have to give in to unreasonable demands, but they must evaluate and place students appropriately.
You and I have had this discussion before - please note the word "some," which I even underlined to emphasize. Parents/guardians do need to advocate for their kids, however, they need to also remember there are other students who may be impacted by what they are requesting. If an action will be very beneficial to the special education student and has little impact on other students it is a no-brainer - what the parent is asking needs to be done. It is the other side of the spectrum where the issues come into play. It should also be a no-brainer that if an action is of very little benefit to the special education student and will adversely impact a large number of the other students, then the action shouldn't take place. But that isn't what happens. Placing a child who can not count to 10 reliably in an algebra class is an example of this. Most requests/demands fall somewhere in-between and right now the scales appear to be tipped totally towards the benefit of the one child over the many.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
7) A child who requires a one-on-one aide, that cost on average $14,000/year two years ago in my little rural district, are budget killers. Having to pay over $50,000 a year to a private school for one student is a budget killer.
If that same child is not educated, the taxpayer will pay for his adult care. That actually costs a lot more.
I agree. The point is though, this type of education is expensive and impacts school budgets - and is also part of the reason the cost of education has risen so dramatically over the last couple of decades. And it is a large chunk of some school district's budgets. This needs to be understood by the general public, if for no other reason than I want them to quit claiming I am so grossly overpaid that I am breaking the budget.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
8) It costs a lot more to educate students that require a 1:8 teacher/student ratio than those that require a 1:35 ratio.
A 1:35 ratio is generally not good for any child (I was in classes with a 1:25 ratio even back in the 50s, except for the two years I was in Catholic school with a 1:65 ratio which was awful).
I taught middle school. The largest class I have had to teach had 41 kids - it was an tracked accelerated class. It wasn't bad other than space for the labs was a real problem. That same year I had smaller non-tracked heterogeneous classes that had every level but the accelerated kids - the class I had over 26 in was difficult to manage.
The state limit without waiver in my last state was 36:1 for middle and high school. When budgets get tight class size limits in regular classrooms, especially if the subject is not tested that year, is the very first thing to go. That is reality in many states. On the other hand, special education ratios are untouchable. There is a growing resentment in some places from overloaded regular teachers towards special ed teachers over this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053
I agree that special education is expensive, but... not educating our disabled population is much more expensive and not allowing them out into the general population is not a good alternative except in very severe cases. Back when I was in school, kids with disabilities were often kept at home and not educated or placed in institutions or placed in special education classrooms that did not teach them any academics at all even when they were able to learn.
My grandson has autism. He was nonverbal at 5, so he went to the special needs preK and they mainstreamed him into K with an aide for part of the day. He was fully included in a regular classroom in K, 1st and 2nd grade with special ed pullouts to a small class for some academic work. He is currently in 3rd grade in a regular classroom where the special ed teachers come into the class to work with him. Guess what - he is now verbal and social and getting Cs, Bs and As on regular classroom work and he continues to make fantastic progress. We expect him to be able to live on his own and to have a job. He may or may not go to college (we are not sure how far behind he might be given his academic problems with reading, but we fully expect him to get a regular high school diploma though he might take longer than the NT students).
I get the value of special education, and early intervention can make all the difference in the world for the rest of the child's life. But, it is expensive and school budgets are not unlimited. I have a lot less issues with what your grandchild received than the over $60,000 per year that it cost the taxpayers for the kid of the MTV CEO to receive special education at a private school when the public schools had services.
K-12 public education dollars are relatively finite, meaning the money that goes to fund the extra services required by law for students with special needs are usually being pulled from other programs, including the extra help in reading and math for "regular" education students. In light of the increasing pressure being put on schools and teachers of these students, I think it's fair to say that many of these urban school districts are facing a tough dilemma. Hypothetically speaking, these schools could have a situation where they have 80 students (10 of whom have disabilities that require serious interventions) and 4 teachers. What ends up happening is that the law will all but dictate that the 10 students with disabilities get one or two of those teachers, and the remaining students are stuck in classrooms with a student:teacher ratio of 35:1. (This is an oversimplified example of course but the point is that an increasing number of specialists are needed to serve smaller groups of students while class sizes for all other students tend to rise, particularly when budgets get tight.)
We need to have a conversation as a country about what are goals are and if we truly do intend to serve all of these "masters," issues of funding will need to be discussed. We also need to consider how some districts face a larger burden than others.
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