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You do realize you have primarily been arguing with classroom teachers, some of whom are also parents, right? This isn't the parenting forum but education forum and most of the regular participants are professionally assosicated with education and their primary interest is in improving the education of all students. All students includes yours. We are the last people who want to see education funds cut but we aren't the ones who make those decisions. However, we are the ones who have witnessed the impact budget cuts have had on our students.
My concern with over diagnosis, by the way, is significantly less about funding than it is the lasting negative impact it has on the misdiagnosed student. And make no mistake about it, that over-medication makes my job "easier" so you'd think I'd be happy with it. But making my job easier isn't the primary consideration and turning kids that don't need it into mind numbed, docile zombies for my convenience, or anyone's convenience, isn't the right thing to do.
I'm from generations of elementary school teachers and university professors, I teach college students myself. Congrats. You don't have to tell me again, I got it the first, second and third time. You still aren't a doctor, or a psychologist, nor do you work in any profession that could state what you've stated with any accuracy about misdiagnosing anyone with anything.
I'm also the mother of a special needs student. How is cutting funding for special needs improving education for all students? And who does make the decisions to cut funding, if it isn't you and me who vote on it? Don't vote for them, don't vote for people who cut education budgets at all for any section of funding. Protect your work place. There is no reason we can't raise the budget for education if we vote appropriately. You might have to become an independent voter and disregard party lines but it can be done. We are the ones who vote for educational funding and budget cuts so just don't, vote for people who will up the budget. Vote for people who will address your concerns. It doesn't have to be a fight for funding between regular kids and handicap kids. Stop making it that.
I'm still wondering how in the heck you know what kind of negative impact misdiagnoses and unnecessary medication have on special needs kids? I can see that you might have had one or two over the years who's meds were messed up, or one who was thought to have a minor spectrum disorder like ADHD but really didn't, but when you say that it makes it sound like you are talking about the majority of special needs students at your school. That's really hard for me to swallow. Plus, Gifted students also absorb that budget, and they are just as deserving of a good education. All kids are.
Just the sheer fact that you think a large amount of parents, how'd you put it, "drug their kids into docile zombie hood strikes me as just your personal impression to be honest. Nothing I would take seriously, especially when your talking about other people, and their family dynamics regarding someone else's child from what you've just seen from your classroom. It's just such a sweeping generalization. And again, I still don't know why you would bring that up on a thread about budget cuts to special ed and poor kids. Do you think poor kids aren't really all poor either? The article wasn't about fixing misdiagnoses to help curb the special education budget. It has nothing to do with that.
You're a parent, are you a special needs parent? Does one of your kids have a serious mental or physical disorder as well? Do you use an IEP, or a 504? How do you know what treatment is necessary and what is not? Who benefits from medication and who does not? Who's bad enough and who is not? Who's poor enough or who's not. Do you think you can do a better job than their parents or doctors? Or do you just think you can?
I believe parents who are NOT educators are free to post opinions on the EDUCATION forum. Poppysead has every right to her opinions and being a teacher or retired teacher certainly does not make you God. Maybe some of you educators or retired educators are just used to teaching children and like to have the last word. I would like to hear from actual Spec ed teachers working presently. I just spent a day with speech paths, spec ed teachers and occupational therapists that are working professionals. They didn't talk about over diagnosis of autism once in six hours. Non- spec ed teachers here are just giving an opinion like everyone else.
Actually I am a teacher, at a college though, not the little ones. I get them after the fact. But I do have a child who needs a 504. I agree though, parents are obviously an important part of this picture.
See, you missed the point..she DOES have a chronic medical condition and she didn't NEED any of that. It's called being reasonable. A note from a dr vs taking up time in meetings and expending resources that she just didn't need and we got to the same place in the end. Technically the school has a policy that she had 2 days to make up 1 missed day of homework but common sense prevailed every single one of her teachers said just get it done when you can. We didn't need meetings, we didn't need advocates, we didn't need a 504, we didn't NEED any of that because, well, people understood. I never even TALKED to any of her teachers. They approached her, she dealt with them with one simple conversation where the teachers said "it's great to see you back, what do you want to do about your make up work....ok, sounds good" and off she went to the next class....
After 3 days of calling in her absences, because that was the school policy, the school nurse called me, got the scoop on what was up and just said, I'll mark her absent until I hear otherwise...see, common sense. We didn't need any court orders so she could go take an extra bathroom break to take her medications, she simply just asked her teacher and they said, sure, lets move you by the door so it's easier. No lawyer needed for that.
I know other families in similar situations and they have all had the same experience....
I am betting you don't live in Texas. Here they often prosecute parents for student truancy despite doctor's notes.
Actually I am a teacher, at a college though, not the little ones. I get them after the fact. But I do have a child who needs a 504. I agree though, parents are obviously an important part of this picture.
I was responding to old hag's comment where she questioned you about the fact you were arguing with teachers. My point is that parents, whether educators or not, have a right to have an opinion on the education forum. We all have different perspectives and I am not going to feel dismissed by a retired school teacher who is not qualified to teach a spec ed contained classroom or diagnose spec needs. I am referring to OldHag. I am not referring to golf gal because I am not sure what her point is, really. I think you have great points as a parent with spec needs.
I just will not accept that our society is not going to take care of spec need kids and Americans need to make education for all kids, a priority. People who live in NJ make education a priority, pay high taxes but have some of the best schools on the country. It is a choice we all need to make. I find it discouraging that some educators on this thread have blatantly discussed NOT addressing the needs of spec ed students because school budgets can't afford to do so at the expense of the mainstream majority. I find that interesting since Portland Public Schools has been negotiating with the teachers' union for a new contract. Teachers want a cost of living increase but can the district afford it with budget constraints? Maybe no. A lot of teachers take that personally. That's how I feel when a retired teacher says there is no money in the budget to pay for my kids with spec needs. I take it personally.
I also don't see the direct connection between over diagnosis of ADHD, which may result in over medication of children, but does NOT result in an increase of services at OUR school. ADHD students do not receive extra tutoring or spec classes/services because they are diagnosed with ADHD. Why should I care if they are over medicated? Over -medicating ADHD students does not impact my child or her education. I know that our district does not give spec ed services liberally to dyslexic students. I know kids with dyslexia that are not given an IEP and have private tutoring paid by parents. The school district diagnoses students with autism, regardless of a medical diagnosis. So the fact that the medical community is giving out autism diagnosis freely does not impact our spec ed budget since the district determines whether the student is a eligible for spec ed services.
The original post was how increases of spec needs in the medical community is increasing the needs of spec ed services in the public schools, using 40% of school budgets. My argument is what I just explained. Our district makes it's own decisions about spec ed services independent of just a medical diagnosis. Parents have every right to sue districts if they are unhappy with the district's decisions and some parents do sue. Some parents win and some lose these lawsuits. There are posters here who keep referring to lawyers and the topic at hand so I guess it's the lawsuits they are referring to when lawyers and spec needs are mentioned in the same sentence.
I agree and disagree with a lot of people's ideas but some posters keep implying their opinions count more because they are teachers and I want to reiterate that this forum is for everyone. I really like your posts, Poppysead, and enjoy your passion and tenacity. I got tired and feel like a broken record posting here.
I was responding to old hag's comment where she questioned you about the fact you were arguing with teachers.
No, that is not what I was doing. I was responding to this comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
Since this thread is becoming a parents of normal kids missing out because of special needs kids parents taking their funds, I'm moving on. You can have at it without me. I'm just not into that. There are other alternatives in my opinion.
She said the thread had become about parents of normal kids missing out because special needs kids parents taking their funds. I'm not 100% sure what she was trying to say here, because it is not clear, but I interpreted it as she thought the thread had just become a dispute between parents of normal kids and parents of special needs kids. My point was she was primarily disputing with people who were basing their opinions on their experience as educators, not people basing it on their experience as parents.
But I am going concede it all to you:
You are right, the fact that I retired two and a half years ago from full-time classroom teaching means I am totally clueless about what currently goes on in education today. That I currently volunteer in the schools, occasionally sub in the schools, still read educational journals, write a couple of articles a year about education issues is all immaterial.
You are right, that I have taught over 2,500 kids, including hundreds of special ed kids, gives me no right to comment on trends I have seen in the classroom. Nor does it give me any validation to think I know anything about what might or might not work well for educating kids. People who have never actually taught students are much more reliable sources for deciding what is effective education.
You are right, that I taught prior to the inception of PL 94-142, and have had to adjust my teaching due to the the multiple transformations of special education through years is not a reason to think I know anything about trends in special education. And I certainly couldn't draw any conclusions about it's impact on the education of the average student.
You are right, who am I to think that just because I have sat on multiple school and district budgeting committees, that I might have an understanding of how various factors, including special education, might impact other parts of the budget.
You are right, I wouldn't have a clue about long term impacts on students, because keeping in touch with multitudes of former students, who also tell me about how the lives of some of their classmates that I don't keep in touch with are going, would give me no indication of the type of kid who ends up thriving and the type who ends struggling once they become adults. I certainly couldn't notice any patterns or draw reasonable conclusions.
You are right, teaching special education teachers, as they are working to get their degree, how to be teachers gives me no idea what their jobs are like, the practices of special education, or how a classroom operates.
You are right, sitting in hundreds of IEP meetings, engaging in even more phone calls and parent/teacher conferences through the years hasn't given me one iota of understanding about parents of special ed kids.
You are right, all the class work I have done, all the research I have read, all the seminars I have attended, all the training I have received, specifically geared towards special education, does not make me knowledgeable on the subject at all. And those collaborative classes I taught, those don't contribute at all to my experience with special ed students. And all those hours through the years with the various associated professionals, such as speech therapist and OT, did not teach me anything. Nope, don't know a thing about it.
You are right, just because I have had to properly implement hundreds of IEP's and 504 plans, or risk being sued, doesn't mean I know what they are, or how they work, or what their purpose is, or how they are written, or how it is determined what goes in them. And I sure wouldn't know anything about how feasible or unfeasible they can be. That I participated in writing them doesn't count either.
You are right, a person with one or two children in special ed, who has dealt with one school district, is much more knowledgeable about all aspects of special ed than I will ever be.
You are right, every time I use the words "some" or "a few", what I am really doing is saying "all" and "large amounts". I was trying to pull a fast one, but you caught me.
You are right, I am just a burnt out old has-been, with a "tone" who has no right to think she might know something about special education students, especially compared to any parent of any special education student. So, I admit you are 100% right and I am 100% wrong therefore anything I have said on the subject should just be dismissed as the rantings of an old hag.
You win.
However.... You might want to consider that if articles specifically questioning special education spending are finally starting to hit local papers, there are others besides me who think special education spending has gotten out of hand.
Funds for sped cannot be cut so get that worry out of your mind.
States are mandated by the FedGov to provide services to sped students.
What will happen and what is happening is that other areas get cut.
Teachers get layed off, electives are dropped, computers and self paced software are purchased.
Cuts are always made in other areas to accommodate the sped students needs..always.
This is where I have a problem. What sense does it make to spend so much money on so few students in the vain attempt to make them "normal"? One teacher per student, really? Meanwhile the rest of the student body has to go without an art or music teacher due to budget cuts. This is insane altruism. My sister was born premature and was deemed to have special needs. They dumped her in a special needs class with kids with more severe issues like cerebral palsy. Then in 9th grade the switched her to normal classes. She did ok graduated, went to college and is living her life. She had no personal teacher or IEP.
We shouldn't be cutting any of it. There are other cuts that could be made that don't effect either. I could list hundreds less important funding in this country we do pay for than education. Why on earth would it have to become a situation like this? Where parents and teachers are pitted against parents of special needs children for a funds fight?
The reality doesn't match up. We don't have x amount of dollars for education and the war is on between parents of special needs and the normal kids? Unless you just have a personal beef there's no need for the "outsiders" approach. Hows that going to end?
Do you realize how long it took parents of special needs kids to get them accepted into the education system at all? Before 1961 we all home schooled them. Maybe you don't realize what it's like to have a child constantly pushed out. An advocate is needed for the simplest things like extra paper, an extra bathroom break, a five minute cool down session an extra absence, etc. etc. Otherwise our kids are kicked out of school or punished for their disability. Who made it so hard to get simple assistance in the first place?
A kid with Asthma is treated the same regarding absences during cold and flu season unless you get a medical advocate. More than 10 absences needs a medical excuse. A kid with anxiety disorder needs a form so if they are 5 min. late to school from a panic attack they are let in and don't miss the whole day. It's not an easy system and certainly can take an advocate. Why wouldn't those parents get one? Why would they just accept their kids being removed from school for illness?
And if you think one days goes by that I don't wish I had a "normal" kid I could push out the door to school without all this added baggage you are very mistaken. I wish for it on a daily basis.
Since this thread is becoming a parents of normal kids missing out because of special needs kids parents taking their funds, I'm moving on. You can have at it without me. I'm just not into that. There are other alternatives in my opinion.
So what happened to the kids before 1961? Was anyone harmed by home schooling? I guess it was a different time then with women staying at home more but home schooling doesn't sound inherently inferior.
So what happened to the kids before 1961? Was anyone harmed by home schooling? I guess it was a different time then with women staying at home more but home schooling doesn't sound inherently inferior.
Depending on severity, some were just put into government institutions for their entire lives, some just never left home, and some mild spectrums just made their way. Some probably became those people who shot up schools or movie theaters and I'm sure some had a decent life. You can look up the history on a search.
So, you think maybe we should just shut the program down and home school? That's funny, most people argue home schooling isn't a good idea, and kids should go to public school instead. Oh, , my bad, you just mean retarded kids should be home schooled. Normal kids should go to public school because it's better.
Geez, I'm really going to take my leave now, it's making me sick.
Depending on severity, some were just put into government institutions for their entire lives, some just never left home, and some mild spectrums just made their way. Some probably became those people who shot up schools or movie theaters and I'm sure some had a decent life. You can look up the history on a search.
So, you think maybe we should just shut the program down and home school? That's funny, most people argue home schooling isn't a good idea, and kids should go to public school instead. Oh, , my bad, you just mean retarded kids should be home schooled. Normal kids should go to public school because it's better.
Geez, I'm really going to take my leave now, it's making me sick.
No, no one is saying they should shut programs down, they are saying they should be run reasonably and with a reasonable budget. There is no NEED for one on one teaching for ANY student...so that can go to start. If a child NEEDS one-on-one care, sorry, they don't belong in a public school setting no matter how much you want them to go to prom....
Depending on severity, some were just put into government institutions for their entire lives, some just never left home, and some mild spectrums just made their way. Some probably became those people who shot up schools or movie theaters and I'm sure some had a decent life. You can look up the history on a search.
So, you think maybe we should just shut the program down and home school? That's funny, most people argue home schooling isn't a good idea, and kids should go to public school instead. Oh, , my bad, you just mean retarded kids should be home schooled. Normal kids should go to public school because it's better.
Geez, I'm really going to take my leave now, it's making me sick.
You did it to yourself by saying to just "shut down the program" which no one is advocating.
Rather than reasonably discuss it you go to the extreme and then bash everyone else for something YOU posted.
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But I do have a child who needs a 504. I agree though, parents are obviously an important part of this picture.
, my bad, you just mean retarded kids should be home schooled. Normal kids should go to public school because it's better. 
