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I think those are all valid reasons, but the fact of the matter is that our education system for better or for worse is built around standardized testing. If a homeschooled child is to ever go to college, s/he's going to have to take the SAT/ACT. And any post-graduate education will require even more testing (GRE, MCAT, LSAT, bar exam, etc.) So it's pretty much unavoidable. I'm of the opinion that you might as well just accept it early on, but YMMV.
Actually, you are not required to take the SAT/ACT for many colleges. Community colleges don't require them. Neither do many private 4 year colleges. All they prove is that you can take a standardized test. Doesn't mean you actually learned a darn thing!
Also many grad programs don't require a standardized test for the same reason. I know because I've avoided all these stupid money making tests. Somehow I graduated with honors. Not too bad for someone who avoids those silly tests.
And in the state I live in, ALL students are required to take standardized tests in certain grades on specific subjects. ALL homeschool students must take them as well. They take them at the local public school (rarely) or the parents give the test or a certified test giver is brought in or the student is brought to (most common). So you are FULL of misinformation about who has to take a standardized test. A test that only scores how well you can work the system. It doesn't actually test your knowledge on the material.
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Originally Posted by thatguydownsouth
DONT homeschool your kids. Please. I was homeschooled for grades 7th through 11th and it left my socially inept. I was pretty much an awkward kid because I never developed any social skills. It was also a complete shock to me when I went to college and had to study and do homework on my own, because lets face it parents hold their kids hands too much with homeschooling.
So what about K-6? That's the key age to learn socialization! Or did you live under a rock until 7th grade? Why suddenly were you homeschooled in 7th grade? Usually there's an issue at the local public school when someone starts homeschooling at the middle school level. You also had 12th grade to learn about homework and how to study. Maybe your parents held your hand too much, but that doesn't mean every parent does.
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Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
For many kids, without the pace set by the classroom, their pace would be that of a turtle just because they could get away with it. Heck, I have kids who do this who are in my class. I just failed one student with an 8% in my class.
What does it say about your teaching abilities that you had a student earn an 8%? Where were you long before the grade was so low? I'm sorry, but you failed at your job just as much as the child failed his job.
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Originally Posted by tpk-nyc
There are two different types of home school parents: (1) those unhappy with the educational opportunities in their area and (2) those who want to limit their children’s exposure to things like evolution, sex education, etc. I respect the former, but have a difficult time with the later.
Sorry, but not everyone falls into your two categories. I don't. I have my own personal reasons for homeschooling and it's none of the above.
I grew up in the public school system and struggled until the day I graduated. In kindergarten, my witchy teacher wanted to hold me back because I was bored. I was bored because I already knew everything she was teaching! So no I couldn't sit still. I struggled in elementary school up until 4th grade where I FINALLY had a teacher who understood that I wasn't a problem child. I was BORED! I tested several grade levels ahead, but the school refused to move me up a grade let alone 2.
My 4th grade teacher gave me extra assignments, extra library time, extra reading and writing assignments, extra everything. Why? It gave me something to do! I loved going to the library and reading books. I was writing 10 page papers in 4th grade for fun. Yes, it meant more work for him, but I wasn't this fidgety kid who couldn't sit still and was about to scream.
Then I went to 5th grade and it was like going back in time. I struggled again. Sixth grade was the ultimate nightmare because all that teacher was concerned about was his retirement. He counted down the days daily.
By the time I got to middle school, I stopped caring. No one else seemed to care about my education. The school didn't give two hoots even though every year I was testing at least 2 grade levels ahead of where I was. I was labeled a problem child.
Then there was the daily bullying. Oh that was fun. Being different is NOT any fun. Being intelligent can get your ass beat pretty quick. People stole things from me - jewelry, money, my purse, things from my locker, books, etc. I was punched, kicked, stepped on, smacked, had my head slammed into a wall, etc.
Why? Because I didn't fit in. I didn't dress like everyone else. I didn't care about the pop culture that was mainstream. I didn't read what others read. Who in high school enjoys reading Shakespeare and understands it very well? Most don't and can't.
Before you jump on the whole your parent needed to advocate for you. They did. My mother worked in my school and saw on a daily basis how I was treated. The option she was given was to send to special ed at BOCES because I was a problem. The problem was my boredom. Apparently, I was supposed to sit quiet as a church mouse for 7 hours, not twitch, and put a smile on my face. My dad still talks about the kindergarten teacher who wanted to fail me 30+ years ago! And he only talked to her twice.
I went to a small school and over 85% of the students and faculty were related. There were issues with students have their parents and aunts/uncles as their teachers! Frequently, they were not moved to a different class with a different teacher.
College was the COMPLETE opposite! I had friends who were like me! I took a minimum of 18 credits and 6 classes ever semester. I graduated with honors. I made the dean and president's lists every semester. I earned scholarships. One scholarship was for the advancement of women and their education. Someone actually gave me money because I am smart! I wasn't ridiculed and beaten up daily because I didn't fit into whatever the snotty bitchy girls in the clique decided was cool that week. College was FANTASTIC! I wish I had quite high school at 16 and went to community college then.
I do plan on homeschooling 100%. Where I live, there are many homeschool programs. The local public school has 2 homeschool advocates because we have so many who homeschool. Granted, there are a number of Amish and Mennonite here and they do not attend the public schools so they are considered homeschooled. Even the local YMCA's have homeschool programs. There are several groups on Facebook and Meetup who do get togethers for field trips, advanced math and science, arts, library, music, sports, etc.
Every person I have met who was homeschooled has been happy they were homeschooled. Yes, many are very religious and that plays into it. All except one have great careers and furthered their education. That one who did not has a serious mental illness. He's doing well with medication and therapy. He works in the family business. His mental illness was NOT caused by homeschooling. His doctors believe that public school would have ended up with him institutionalized. Academically and socially, he did very well homeschooled. I can't even imagine what public school would have been like for him. Ironically, one of his brothers married a high school math teacher. She's not anti homeschool at all. Granted, she has known his family she since could walk. She also got to see those kids first hand and how they grew up.
My sister-in-law is a teacher and a terrible one at best. I would NOT allow my child to be placed in her classroom. Why? She's not intelligent and doesn't even know the basics of what she has been given a license to teach.
She's certified to birth through 2nd grade. She's not qualified to teach past pre-k in my book. Why? She doesn't know anything! She's all cutesy and ditzy and gets by on that. She honestly believes that Central America is a continent AND a country! She told me this the week after she was teaching Central American geography to her students. I corrected her and her response was, "Oh well. They'll learn it again in 4th grade so it doesn't matter what I teach them." Wow. Just wow. Yes, PLEASE use my tax dollars to hire more of that! And yes, she has a master's degree in education and a bachelor's degree in education. Too bad she didn't learn a damn thing in those 7 years!
I'd bet most of those kids (if not all) were "educated" in a public school.
Simply because a child attends a public school (perhaps they have a single (or both) parents who must work outside the home - does not mean that they arent also taught and educated at home. If your children have difficulty reading and writing - and they need additional time and assistance do it. I do not think advocates for public or private schooling beileves you turn your children over to the schools and have no parental responsibilty with respect to education.
I hope not StilltheSame, I agree parents have some responsibility, though (sadly) a lot of people DO turn their children over to the schools, and figure their responsibility ends there.
I'd bet most of those kids (if not all) were "educated" in a public school.
Well duh, most kids go to public school. Home schooling, can be fine, it can also be a colossal mess. And this is an opinion that had only recently become negative.
I teach both gifted high school students and at the college level. Until this year I had only had one homeschool student who had issues with her prior education all the rest were in no way different than their peers. So over ten years that's about 40 students. The one student was about four years ago and her mother just wasn't "into" science so she didn't teach it at all. This bright hardworking child had no idea what atoms were, or photosynthesis or anything a high school student should have at least heard of. She struggled and it ruined her selfesteem, she passed the class but left the school the following year.
This past year I had many homeschooled students in my introduction to Oceanography. Apparently, a local homeschool/unschooling group encourages kids to take classes as a group. This is community college, my expectations are certainly not high, and it was a disaster. There were 10 of them and two were perfectly fine, high achieving students. The rest had severe behavioral problems, gaping holes in their education or both.
First, it is a college class, it is inappropriate and illegal for me to discuss an a student with anyone else including their parents. I had a parent try to talk to me everyday about their student, this was literally everyday because she would walk him into class, hand him his supplies, and then wait outside the room. During field work I had to get my department chair to tell her to leave due to safety reasons. Additionally, this young man would not talk or interact with anyone including me. I even asked if he had a 504 in admissions and he did not.
Another group of student would not answer and question dealing with the age of the ocean, earth, organisms etc, as anything except the biblical answer. All three of them failed the class. As in the course description this is a science class and deals extensively with the origin of earth, the oceans, ancient climates, and so on. Two if them asked why there are tides on Earth and how do they vary, answered because god wills it. Then argued with me when I gave then no credit. Strangely this was the same group with behavior problems. They were rude and actually called the captain of the boat we took them on for a lab a meth head. This is a former navy lt commander who know works for NOAA. They were constantly disruptive, and when asked to stop, even by other students responded universally with done version of "my parents paid for this I can do what I want". I had never had to send a COLLEGE student to the dean before but that class I sent three.
Even the kids who had no outward issues, still struggled. This was their first science class at anything beyond a elementary school level, according to their own admission. They tried hard no doubt but they literally had no idea about gravity, I thought they were going to pass out when I just showed them the formula for it even though we do not mathematically use it at this level. One girl couldn't understand that letters could represent numbers, or numbers we didn't know. Lucky for both of us we do only a handful of math problems at this level.
They did mostly pass but out go the ten who announced in the beginning of class that they were part of this homeschool group, only 5 earned passing grades. This is an easy class, I rarely have any failures besides kids who just don't show up. Before I saw this group of students I had a good opinion of homeschooling because the kids I worked with were not socially inept, or poor student with bad educations. But apparently there exists a very real subset of homeschoolers who are both.
I was very much like this mother (stillthesame) and agree with her experience. (What I find annoying is that Omatic asked the question and asked for our opinions and then seemed angry and criticized the opinion we gave). Every child is different, every school district is different, parental ability to teach is different. You have to make a choice for your child using all your experience and knowledge. There is no right answer. Your experience in school will not necessarily be the same for your child. I do see how schools are becoming more violent and disruptive. Perhaps the answer is somewhere along the online school method where kids can interact, have testing (its inevitable) and still be safe from violence and harassment. (Of course it doesn't solve the need to have supervision if the parent is working. Cant have a 6 year old home alone.) I think good parents will always strive to do what is best for their children. Its an ever evolving situation.
Every child is different, every school district is different, parental ability to teach is different. You have to make a choice for your child using all your experience and knowledge. There is no right answer. Your experience in school will not necessarily be the same for your child. I do see how schools are becoming more violent and disruptive. Perhaps the answer is somewhere along the online school method where kids can interact, have testing (its inevitable) and still be safe from violence and harassment. (Of course it doesn't solve the need to have supervision if the parent is working. Cant have a 6 year old home alone.) I think good parents will always strive to do what is best for their children. Its an ever evolving situation.
[quote=lkb0714;33187394 And this is an opinion that had only recently become negative.
This was their first science class at anything beyond a elementary school level, according to their own admission. Before I saw this group of students I had a good opinion of homeschooling because the kids I worked with were not socially inept, or poor student with bad educations. But apparently there exists a very real subset of homeschoolers who are both.[/quote]
There's a "subset" in the public schools too, don't you think?
That's too bad you happened to meet up with home schooled children whose parents decided to forego a curriculum. Many, many other home schoolers make sure they have the same access to the public curriculum and see to it that their children learn it ALL. Here where I live, public schools now skip over whole chapters in the math book, and children are not learning their multiplication/division tables any more. In English they're not being taught to print correctly, and they can't write at all.
Kids from the public school (even their parents) were surprised and envious of the really creative science experiments children can do at home. In the schools near where I live, high school science projects are embarrassingly simple, something a young child would do. I'm not saying it's like that in all schools though. I know some have much more to offer, and better programs.
I guess it really does depend on the parents to see to it that their child is educated, be they in a public school or not.
There's a "subset" in the public schools too, don't you think?
That's too bad you happened to meet up with home schooled children whose parents decided to forego a curriculum. Many, many other home schoolers make sure they have the same access to the public curriculum and see to it that their children learn it ALL. Here where I live, public schools now skip over whole chapters in the math book, and children are not learning their multiplication/division tables any more. In English they're not being taught to print correctly, and they can't write at all.
Kids from the public school (even their parents) were surprised and envious of the really creative science experiments children can do at home. In the schools near where I live, high school science projects are embarrassingly simple, something a young child would do. I'm not saying it's like that in all schools though. I know some have much more to offer, and better programs.
I guess it really does depend on the parents to see to it that their child is educated, be they in a public school or not.
Interesting you bring up the science fair, as a research teacher it is near and dear.
I have brought students to compete in the Jersey Shore Science Fair, Delaware Valley Science Fair, and the ISEF itself. I have had the complete opposite experience. Homeschoolers rarely make it out of the JSSF, and then only in the middle school grades. At the DVSF, there is an entire homeschooled feeder fair so those kids end up in the same categories as mine do. Last year the overall winner for the homeschooler fair was a student who put 10 brine shrimp in a cup with oil added. Thats it. No replication, no experimental design, no statistical analysis, nothing. And that was the best project in the entire homeschool fair. Bizarre.
I think science maybe the most telling of all. If you compare a good public school, with a good home school set up, the access to quality science equipment, trained personnel etc, is just going to be extremely different. Now if the alternative is a poorly funded school than I think the balance will swing in favor of the homeschool. But lets be clear, homeschoolers will not have access to the things students get to use in my districts science classes everyday.
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And yes, she has a master's degree in education and a bachelor's degree in education. Too bad she didn't learn a damn thing in those 7 years!
