Draw a picture of the word nobody. (school, interpreting, logic)

[Aggiebuttercup]

I have a first grader and a second grader in non-core curriculums. Neither would be able to tell you what Greece is. We have "states" vs "country" down right now and are working on the concept of "county".

If they are using the study of ancient civilizations to help teach logic (that this culture needed canals to farm because they didn't have water, and plants need water), that's fine. The civilization details won't stick with the kids, but the logic part will.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

This reminds me of when my son was in 5th grade and would be pulled out of his regular classroom for a gifted/enrichment program. My wife and I attended a parent teacher conference with the gifted teacher, his regular teacher and the principal. The gifted teacher showed us our son's results from a recent assignment. The gifted teacher placed an old boot on a table and the students were to write a story about it. The gifted teacher showed us a blank sheet of paper that are son produced. The teacher did not think he belonged in a gifted program. We pulled him out.

He later graduated with honors from an Ivy League school, graduated from a top medical school and is now in his residency. I have a feeling what his picture of the word "nobody" would have looked like.

From the article, I also question why second graders are studying ancient Greece and why you would ask them why the Athens adopted Athena, not Poseidon, in naming itself. I also question why first graders are studying similarities between farming in ancient Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. Isn't it more important to learn to read before you study ancient history?

See, the problem is that "gifted" isn't just "smart". There are some really smart people that don't qualify for gifted education. Truly gifted kids think and process differently. They are out of the box thinkers. They also aren't always the top kids in their class. It's about meeting a learning style not just giving extra homework. It certainly doesn't mean your son isn't very smart, he obviously is, but doesn't make him gifted. It's a common misconception.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by Aggiebuttercup

I have a first grader and a second grader in non-core curriculums. Neither would be able to tell you what Greece is. We have "states" vs "country" down right now and are working on the concept of "county".

If they are using the study of ancient civilizations to help teach logic (that this culture needed canals to farm because they didn't have water, and plants need water), that's fine. The civilization details won't stick with the kids, but the logic part will.

That makes sense, yes. Now, back to the original question since you have children of that age. What would they hand you if you asked them to draw a picture of the word nobody? Do you want to try it?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

This reminds me of when my son was in 5th grade and would be pulled out of his regular classroom for a gifted/enrichment program. My wife and I attended a parent teacher conference with the gifted teacher, his regular teacher and the principal. The gifted teacher showed us our son's results from a recent assignment. The gifted teacher placed an old boot on a table and the students were to write a story about it. The gifted teacher showed us a blank sheet of paper that are son produced. The teacher did not think he belonged in a gifted program. We pulled him out.

He later graduated with honors from an Ivy League school, graduated from a top medical school and is now in his residency. I have a feeling what his picture of the word "nobody" would have looked like.

From the article, I also question why second graders are studying ancient Greece and why you would ask them why the Athens adopted Athena, not Poseidon, in naming itself. I also question why first graders are studying similarities between farming in ancient Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. Isn't it more important to learn to read before you study ancient history?

Our son had a similar story. He had a teacher in the 2nd grade that usually taught a gifted program. During conferences, she proceeded to rip into my son who was at the conference table on how she is concerned (I'm paraphrasing) that he is a slow learner and lacked focus (sloppy etc). Before we entered, we could hear that the teacher was getting belittled by the prevous parents. When we entered, she really wasn't in a good mood so we got her wrath in full force. Before conferences, we were not very impressed with her. After conferences, she dropped to a new low and we met with the principal to make sure we had our say in who his future teachers were. But that conference really took a toll on his self esteem. He wrote about it in one of his english papers.

Like your son, he turned out to be a high performer. He was the valedictorian in HS (#1 out of 600), a college chemistry and biology tutor while in 11th grade, currently ranked #1 academically in one of the larger Service Academies, and is being prodded to apply for the Rhodes and other national scholarships.

My message is that some kids peak early while others hit their stride in their teens and beyond. Teachers don't always get it right.

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by golfgal

See, the problem is that "gifted" isn't just "smart". There are some really smart people that don't qualify for gifted education. Truly gifted kids think and process differently. They are out of the box thinkers. They also aren't always the top kids in their class. It's about meeting a learning style not just giving extra homework. It certainly doesn't mean your son isn't very smart, he obviously is, but doesn't make him gifted. It's a common misconception.

I disagree that it is a common misconception. Gifted is what you define and for what purpose. Each state has a different legal definition. Here is part of the definition from Pennsylvania (see Gifted Education)

Each school district must establish procedures for determining whether a student is mentally gifted through a screening and evaluation process that meets the requirements of Chapter 16. Chapter 16 defines the term mentally gifted as "including a person who has an IQ of 130 or higher and when multiple criteria indicate gifted ability." A person with an IQ lower than 130 may be gifted when other educational criteria in the child's profile strongly indicate gifted ability. The matrix used the the school district may not be more restrictive than the requirement of the Chapter 16 regulations.

5. What are the multiple criteria that indicate a student may be mentally gifted?
The multiple criteria indicating a student may be mentally gifted include:

• A year or more above grade achievement level in one or more subjects as measured by nationally normed and validated achievement tests.
• An observed or measured rate of acquisition/retention of new academic content or skills.
• Demonstrated achievement, performance or expertise in one or more academic areas as evidenced by excellence of products, portfolio, or research, as well as criterion-referenced team judgment.
• Early and measured use of high level thinking skills (Guilford/Bloom's Taxonomy), academic creativity, leadership skills, intense academic interest areas, communications skills, foreign language aptitude or technology expertise.

Originally Posted by Hazel W

That makes sense, yes. Now, back to the original question since you have children of that age. What would they hand you if you asked them to draw a picture of the word nobody? Do you want to try it?

I have three children. The most intelligent of the three would not have done it. My one daughter who is both artistic and very conscientious, would have drawn something. The other daughter would have probably told the teacher it was stupid.

Back to the point about Common Core, I agree with most of the concepts that I have read in regard to the English Language Arts Standards. I don't understand how drawing a picture of the word nobody fits into the objectives of the standards. I think it is all in how the standards are being interpreted. When I look at the Pennsylvania Common Core standards for English Language Arts Grade PreK–5 http://static.pdesas.org/content/doc...ary%202013.pdf, I don't see how this this type of instruction could be considered part of Common Core.

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Our son had a similar story. He had a teacher in the 2nd grade that usually taught a gifted program. During conferences, she proceeded to rip into my son who was at the conference table on how she is concerned (I'm paraphrasing) that he is a slow learner and lacked focus (sloppy etc). Before we entered, we could hear that the teacher was getting belittled by the prevous parents. When we entered, she really wasn't in a good mood so we got her wrath in full force. Before conferences, we were not very impressed with her. After conferences, she dropped to a new low and we met with the principal to make sure we had our say in who his future teachers were. But that conference really took a toll on his self esteem. He wrote about it in one of his english papers.

Like your son, he turned out to be a high performer. He was the valedictorian in HS (#1 out of 600), a college chemistry and biology tutor while in 11th grade, currently ranked #1 academically in one of the larger Service Academies, and is being prodded to apply for the Rhodes and other national scholarships.

My message is that some kids peak early while others hit their stride in their teens and beyond. Teachers don't always get it right.

I don't think it is usually a matter of some kids peaking or maturing earlier than others. Much of what they do in these gifted programs involve drawing pictures. Some people are not artistically inclined. My one daughter loved this kind of stuff. I could never understand why she was always do what appeared to be art projects for her English classes. I think she would have gotten much more out of her junior high and high school English classes if she had done more reading and writing, as opposed to drawing pictures.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

I have three children. The most intelligent of the three would not have done
it. My one daughter who is both artistic and very conscientious, would have
drawn something. The other daughter would have probably told the teacher it was
stupid.

Thanks for your reply. I am thinking these are older children because they are able to interpret purpose. Am I right? If I am right, would they have understood the instruction (the assignment) in grade one?

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by Hazel W

Thanks for your reply. I am thinking these are older children because they are able to interpret purpose. Am I right? If I am right, would they have understood the instruction (the assignment) in grade one?

My children are now in their 20s. I answered the question based on how I thought they would respond when they were in first grade.

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

My children are now in their 20s. I answered the question based on how I thought they would respond when they were in first grade.

Ah. OK. So, they did have some idea of what she was asking for. At least two of them did. The one who called it 'stupid' may or may not have. You'd come nearer knowing that than I. Sometimes people - children and adults - will call something stupid just because they don't understand it.

So, thanks. That's what I'm trying to understand - how much a first grader would have grasped the idea. To tell the truth, I'm still asking myself how I'd draw a picture of the word nobody. A blank sheet of paper, maybe? A long road with nobody on it? Or, I might even play with the letters of the word.

I shall be watching this new concept in education. There have been so many tried and discarded ideas over the last century. I'm glad I am out of it.

[intelfan11315]

I'd just attach a picture of myself

[Hazel W]

Originally Posted by burgler09

I'd just attach a picture of myself

I like that idea.