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Old 02-25-2014, 10:39 PM
 
3,356 posts, read 1,127,244 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I read everything, but it really is not the parents' responsibility to teach the curriculum.
For the most part, I agree, Kat, but when my child comes to me looking for help, I'm going to find it. Sometimes that means sending him back to class with questions, sometimes it means finding a tutor, and sometimes it means firing up the Everyday Math, Pearson, or Khan Academy website and learning it together.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:34 PM
 
31 posts, read 14,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psikeyhackr View Post
You take 2 toys off the shelf and put them in the chest.

ROFL

The objective is to convince kids that educators are stupid.

psik
I think the REAL objective is to convince children that their parents (grandparents, guardians) are stupid and out of touch.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:58 PM
 
31 posts, read 14,057 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
The old way children had to learn addition tables, which took time and was error prone. The new way they only have to learn what numbers add up to multiples of 10, and how to add small numbers to multiples of 10. This can make math available to a lot more children, not just those who were born with an inclination towards math. A retarded child can learn the new way a lot faster than the old way. The only reason it seems strange and difficult is because we weren't taught that way. In other words it's not just selling something shiny new to replace old boring. It's a stroke of genius to realize doing it this way makes it available to more children. That's the key issue. Making math available to more children, not just to those born with math abilities.

It's very common, and has been throughout history, that the most brilliant strokes of genius often seemed like idiocy to the average person. In adopting the new way, they go through stages such as: That's stupid. That's silly. That's easy but so what? What's the point? I always knew that, but it was never worth mention. It's fine. It's the way we do things now.

But what most people never get, is that the new idea actually enables millions of people to do something better. They never see that, because they only see it as the new way vs the old way, and never multiply the small gain in ability by the millions of children who benefit from that gain.

However, I agree that it's a bad test question unless the children who take the test have definitely been extensively taught the new way. The average person would perceive it as a test error, and rightfully so, because such tests tend to be full of errors.

You hit on a key problem with schools today - the least common denominator factor. No disrespect for children with disabilities, but why should ALL children have to learn a nonsensical, illogical method because "A retarded child can learn the new way a lot faster than the old way."?

"In other words it's not just selling something shiny new to replace old boring." No, it is selling something shiny new so somebody makes money selling some shiny new idea, along with the curriculum guides, professional development, consultants, etc. to go with it. Plus, as I posted previously, it drives a wedge between parents trying to be involved in helping their children with coursework (just look at some of the stories from this thread!) and the students.

"Making math available to more children, not just to those born with math abilities" ...because we certainly can't have students in classes that are based on ability with the learning geared toward those learners. Instead of acknowledging that all people have worth, but all people also have differing ABILITIES, we have to be sure again, to subscribe the the least common denominator theory of teaching.

"But what most people never get, is that the new idea actually enables millions of people to do something better." What longitudinal study shows that MILLIONS of people will be doing anything better because of Common Core? There have been NO studies...National Takeover of School Curriculum - Eagle Forum

Parents, if you want to derail Common Core, start calling your children's teachers (particularly if you are in a state with teacher unions) EVERY TIME you have a question about a Common Core problem on homework, etc. Be polite and explain it makes no sense to neither you nor the child and could he/she meet with your to explain this further? Teachers don't want parents calling, questioning stuff; when reexplaining this wonderful new idea over and over becomes a hassle, maybe teachers will pick the right side in this fight!
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:23 AM
 
Location: NoVA
6,051 posts, read 2,352,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kudzutoo View Post

Parents, if you want to derail Common Core, start calling your children's teachers (particularly if you are in a state with teacher unions) EVERY TIME you have a question about a Common Core problem on homework, etc. Be polite and explain it makes no sense to neither you nor the child and could he/she meet with your to explain this further? Teachers don't want parents calling, questioning stuff; when reexplaining this wonderful new idea over and over becomes a hassle, maybe teachers will pick the right side in this fight!
I believe that is referred to as preaching to the choir. Most teachers I have talked to hate the Common Core and, trust me, they are NOT the driving force behind it. They are just the ones forced to figure out a way to teach it the least damaging way they can. Who parents need to be calling are local school district officials and school board members, state education officials, and, most importantly, elected state officials. Tell them you don't like it and why. Send actual examples. Teachers aren't the ones capable of getting rid of this mess, elected officials are. If you call the teachers all you are going to get is carefully worded agreement or frustration.

FYI: I am pretty sure every teacher's union in the nation has complained about this as being onerous, developmentally inappropriate, and of questionable educational value.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:55 AM
 
3,542 posts, read 2,963,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burgler09 View Post
I understand what they're trying to do, but this is a terrible approach. It's not a good way to set up a math problem and does not give a good foundation at all for future math courses.
Common sense speaking.

In my native culture, there is a proverb that translates approximately like this:
"When the devil has nothing better to do, he begins to weigh his tail".

This idiocy dressed as "diversity-sensitive" math question reminds me of this proverb.

I wonder whether this "Dewey" tradition in Anglo Saxon education that attempts to re-invent every little piece of basic knowledge and taylor it to the "uniqueness" of each precious individual ...might be the root reason why both the UK and the US have become famous for sucking hard at math.


Perhaps it's finally time to accept that teaching children to re-invent even the tiniest or most basic of wheels, over and over again, is a pretty dumb and inefficient educational thing to do.

Just because you can make 14 as 10+4, which is the same as 8+6, which is the same as 10+4+2... Doesn't mean that a child should think that " 10+4 is useful in finding out how much 8+6 is" ...and wasting so much freaking time in the process!!! Just bc 10 is a "friendly" number, doesn't mean you should not try to "make friends" with other numbers too!

Sometimes, rote memorization really is a wonderful way to free your mind FAST to think of what
really matters! Such as the several step problems that children taught rote memorization do fast and furious while the Dewey kid turns 8+6 into a "friendly numbers" epic.

The Anglo world should have figured out by now that this Dewey thing is getting both old and wrong.
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Old 03-02-2014, 03:05 PM
 
2,969 posts, read 1,798,609 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lincolnian View Post
There is nothing wrong with exposing those who are ready to concepts they are ready to understand. There is something wrong with putting it on a standardized test and expecting all kids to understand something that many are not developmentally capable of understanding. This is especially true in the primary grades where differences in normal development can vary as much as 24 months.

The CCSS are tied to age-based grades. Perhaps the child should be able to move to the level of standards they are developmentally capable of handling. However, this would be a huge problem given the current structure of our schools since there is no financially or physically efficient way to do this while meeting the social, emotional and maturity needs of the child as well.
This. Of course some kids will get it easily. But a lot won't, because they are too young to get it unless they have an inherent talent for this type of logic. The problem is, they have to teach it to everyone whether they are ready or not, and they will be evaluated in part based on how many kids do understand it. Plus teachers will end up penalized over the kids who get confused over this new math and score WORSE even on traditional questions because these methods have slowed their learning down.

Quote:
Originally Posted by syracusa View Post

This idiocy dressed as "diversity-sensitive" math question reminds me of this proverb.

I wonder whether this "Dewey" tradition in Anglo Saxon education that attempts to re-invent every little piece of basic knowledge and taylor it to the "uniqueness" of each precious individual ...might be the root reason why both the UK and the US have become famous for sucking hard at math.

(smip)

The Anglo world should have figured out by now that this Dewey thing is getting both old and wrong.
This has ZERO to do with Dewey or "diversity". This has everything to do with non-educators trying to make changes without listening to anyone but themselves, and being manipulated by folks who tell them what they want to hear while really just trying to make themselves money.

Dewey wouldn't do this crap either.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:14 AM
Status: "Fall is in the air-too soon!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
68,609 posts, read 57,269,703 times
Reputation: 19413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldhag1 View Post
I believe that is referred to as preaching to the choir. Most teachers I have talked to hate the Common Core and, trust me, they are NOT the driving force behind it. They are just the ones forced to figure out a way to teach it the least damaging way they can. Who parents need to be calling are local school district officials and school board members, state education officials, and, most importantly, elected state officials. Tell them you don't like it and why. Send actual examples. Teachers aren't the ones capable of getting rid of this mess, elected officials are. If you call the teachers all you are going to get is carefully worded agreement or frustration.

FYI: I am pretty sure every teacher's union in the nation has complained about this as being onerous, developmentally inappropriate, and of questionable educational value.
Agreed. As someone who has a busy, stressful job herself, I hate to do things that make someone's job harder, especially when the worker has no authority to change anything.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:29 AM
 
3,356 posts, read 1,127,244 times
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Are those who are opposed to Common Core willing to pony up the money to support public education in the absence of the federal money that comes with it? It's a quagmire. My guess is that very few taxpayers in my region would be willing to make up the shortfall. Some districts have more generous communities than others, but two huge Front Range districts are already fully embroiled in controversy, and I worry that it's a mess that's prone to spread.
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
73,364 posts, read 33,588,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Are those who are opposed to Common Core willing to pony up the money to support public education in the absence of the federal money that comes with it? It's a quagmire. My guess is that very few taxpayers in my region would be willing to make up the shortfall. Some districts have more generous communities than others, but two huge Front Range districts are already fully embroiled in controversy, and I worry that it's a mess that's prone to spread.
They won't lose any money.
Texas isn't going with CC and we didn't lose any Federal money.
Only 45 states signed up for CC.
And those that embraced CC curriculum are having a different view on the CC assessments and many are backing out and sticking with their own state variations.

When states got the NCLB waivers they were not mandated to go to CC.
They had to make some concessions and changes to their state policies regarding teacher evaluation, etc.


CC has no extra Federal dollars. RTT had the extra dollars.
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Old 03-03-2014, 07:56 PM
 
3,542 posts, read 2,963,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
This has ZERO to do with Dewey or "diversity". This has everything to do with non-educators trying to make changes without listening to anyone but themselves, and being manipulated by folks who tell them what they want to hear while really just trying to make themselves money.
Dewey wouldn't do this crap either.
You would hope ...but this is how Dewey has been interpreted over the decades, whether we like it or not ...or whether Dewey himself would have liked it or not.

And what you see here DOES have to do with the "progressive" movement in education, supposedly inspired by Dewy, which has advanced ideas such as knowledge and learning must be tailored/adapted to individual needs, learning styles, etc.

What they are doing here - they're doing it in the name of these very ideas.

The assumption is that not all children will be able to comfortably/naturally/quickly remember that 8+6=14; therefore it might be easier for some of them - the line of thought goes - to turn 8 into a "friendly" number (as in 10), remember that they added 2 to it, therefore take 2 away from 6 to balance it all out. Now that they only have to deal with "easy to remember additions", they will do 8+2+4 = 10+4 = 14. ...and this is how presumably "10+4" ended up being "useful" to figure out how much "8+6" is.

Never mind that the question, in and of itself, is ridiculous.

While it is true that every individual develops unique ways/psychological strategies to process whatever is being taught, attempting to formulate pedagogy that will address every psychological technique ("learning style") that every individual might naturally resort to...is a recipe for disaster as far as I am concerned. It only ends up messing up everyone with information overload.

I read that this technique of turning some numbers into "friendly numbers" can be traced back to wanting to make it "easier/clearer" for those children who just can't/won't memorize. This problem used to be addressed with a "practice more"/"shape up" response.

Now pedagogy itself is supposed to tie itself into knots so it will accommodate every child's "learning style".

As far as understanding that 14 can be obtained by adding 8+6 just as much as 10+4 ...this could have been tested with an entirely different question.

The question itself is very bad and the motivations behind the question are just as lame.
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