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Old 04-28-2014, 08:05 PM
 
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I'm wondering if Prep school is worth the $. We'd rather save the funds for college, but we are worried about what is going on in public schools with these "reform" programs and so much standardized testing and focus on the bottom students. Are there any thoughts from those that have switched to private / prep schools and how the academics (and environment) compare?

Last edited by sunnyday14; 04-28-2014 at 08:19 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:28 PM
 
11,642 posts, read 22,754,057 times
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Originally Posted by sunnyday14 View Post
I'm wondering if Prep school is worth the $. We'd rather save the funds for college, but we are worried about what is going on in public schools with these "reform" programs and so much standardized testing and focus on the bottom students. Are there any thoughts from those that have switched to private / prep schools and how the academics (and environment) compare?
We switched our kids to a private college prep school (day school, not boarding) in 6th grade. If you have specific questions feel free to PM me.
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Old 04-28-2014, 08:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
My cousin's babysitter's husband's nephew said. . .

My husband works with a lot of engineers from India and says they don't know any more than the US engineers. This issue has been discussed at length on the NPR boards. The main draw for Indian engineers is they'll work for less pay. There's no "holy grail" there, just like there wasn't any holy grail in Japan 25 years ago, though you'd have been hard put to think that at the time.

Same thing with banks hiring workers in India that do finance and IT work. They hire several workers in India employees to replace one laid off US employee. They make like $15K/year as compared to a 100K job in NYC (which is at least $150K with benefits).

The Indian workers DO NOT know more. They think in a very rigid manner and only do what is asked, nothing more. And the work is often incorrect (ie, financial statements). They cannot explain their work, and cannot think strategically. There is a time zone disparity, and they aren't always receptive to management comments on their work. So, the work sometimes needs to be re-done in NYC! Jobs are being cut left and right and sent to India, for low quality work and saving on the bottom line.

My husband says this keeps happening due to the stock price...shareholders want to see a lower cost per employee.
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Old 04-28-2014, 09:40 PM
 
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I do think we need to invest in gifted people. But remember there are very few truely gifted people .Many confuse their children with good learning skills with gifted.I watched a show on a very smart child and he was smart but they found not gifted in the end. Basically he had good learning skills but not much original thought like those you talk about.But the we need a lot more than just gifted in this world. Often gifted make very poor leadesr also as that is a skill some just don't have and better working alone .
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:03 PM
 
48,329 posts, read 21,974,161 times
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Originally Posted by sunnyday14 View Post
Same thing with banks hiring workers in India that do finance and IT work. They hire several workers in India employees to replace one laid off US employee. They make like $15K/year as compared to a 100K job in NYC (which is at least $150K with benefits).

The Indian workers DO NOT know more. They think in a very rigid manner and only do what is asked, nothing more. And the work is often incorrect (ie, financial statements). They cannot explain their work, and cannot think strategically. There is a time zone disparity, and they aren't always receptive to management comments on their work. So, the work sometimes needs to be re-done in NYC! Jobs are being cut left and right and sent to India, for low quality work and saving on the bottom line.

My husband says this keeps happening due to the stock price...shareholders want to see a lower cost per employee.
Offshoring work to India where they can get people do the job, how ineffectively, for less money had been going on for years. IT support for Dell and Compaq used to drive me crazy and the main reason I switched to Apple.

Read awhile ago that call center jobs are moving back to the U.S. Why Call Center Jobs Are Coming Back - The Daily Beast

However, I was referring to IT jobs over here. I live in an area with a lot of tech firms and a ton of people from India. My neighbor works for Cisco and has talked about all his colleagues from India and Asia in general. I doubt he would know the salaries of his coworkers, but it would be strange for Cisco to hire folks and bring them to the U.S. who weren't able to do the job just to save a bit of money. What would be the point?

Last edited by GotHereQuickAsICould; 04-28-2014 at 10:29 PM..
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by texdav View Post
I do think we need to invest in gifted people. But remember there are very few truely gifted people .Many confuse their children with good learning skills with gifted.I watched a show on a very smart child and he was smart but they found not gifted in the end. Basically he had good learning skills but not much original thought like those you talk about.But the we need a lot more than just gifted in this world. Often gifted make very poor leadesr also as that is a skill some just don't have and better working alone .
"According to The Theory of Multiple Intelligences by Howard Gardner, we each have at least seven distinctly different types of intelligence. Each of these seven intelligences operates from a different part of the brain and is relatively independent of the others, with its own timetable for development and growth." Everybody Is A Genius | The Best Brain Possible

Interpersonal intelligence is one area some people are gifted in. Logical-Mathematical is another.

That students who were believed to be gifted later on turn out to be just smart seems to me to be a strange argument for moving students along at a slower pace than they are capable.

Imagine a first grader who exhibits a gift in music and then for the next twelve years her musical education consists of playing variations on Twinkle Twinkle Little Star on a plastic recorder. Would she still test as musically gifted as a senior?
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:23 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Momma_bear View Post
I am one of those who have abandoned public schools. My kids are on the higher end but I think that public schools sell all children short, not just the G&T. I moved my kids because I did not think that they would get what they needed in public schools. They were in elementary/middle before Common Core but the public schools around here were teaching what was on the state tests.

IMO the state tests should be a floor, not a ceiling.
I agree.

Standardized test to ensure that all students have mastered certain basic knowledge seems a reasonable idea. That this is all they need to learn seems limiting.
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Liberal Coast
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We do want to abandon public schools, as I do think many of them cannot be fixed. However, paying for private school is not within our ability right now. Like momma_bear, I think that our public schools are failing all students, but I do believe that many of the brighter kids are getting left behind.

Just introducing certain programs could be very beneficial to gifted or bright students and lighten their boredom in school. Having foreign language start in elementary school would be a big thing (hate that most American schools don't have that in the first place).
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Old 04-28-2014, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,349 posts, read 114,853,156 times
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Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Offshoring work to India where they can get people do the job, how ineffectively, for less money had been going on for years. IT support for Dell and Compaq used to drive me crazy and the main reason I switched to Apple.

Read awhile ago that call center jobs are moving back to the U.S. Why Call Center Jobs Are Coming Back - The Daily Beast

However, I was referring to IT jobs over here. I live in an area with a lot of tech firms and a ton of people from India. My neighbor works for Cisco and has talked about all his colleagues from India and Asia in general. I doubt he would know the salaries of his coworkers, but he designs circuit boards and such. It would be strange for Cisco to hire folks who weren't able to do the job just to save a bit of money. What would be the point?
No one is saying these Indian workers can't do the job. What some of us are saying is they're no more competent than their US counterparts.

Read this about Indian higher education:

**However, India still lacks internationally prestigious universities such as Harvard, Cambridge, and Oxford.[19]**
Higher education in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

**Some institutions of India, such as the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs), Indian Institute of Science and University of Mumbai have been globally acclaimed for their standard of undergraduate education in engineering.[39][41] The IITs enroll about 10,000 students annually and the alumni have contributed to both the growth of the private sector and the public sectors of India.[42] However the IIT's have not had significant impact on fundamental scientific research and innovation. Several other institutes of fundamental research such as the Indian Association for the Cultivation of Science (IACS), Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Tata Institute of Fundamental Research (TIFR), Harishchandra Research Institute (HRI), are acclaimed for their standard of research in basic sciences and mathematics. However, India has failed to produce world class universities both in the private sector or the public sector.[43]**
Education in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here's why they're coming to the US:
**The number of graduates coming out of technical colleges increased to over 700,000 in 2011 from 550,000 in FY 2010.[56][57] However, according to one study, 75% of technical graduates and more than 85% of general graduates are unemployable by India's most demanding and high-growth global industries, including information technology.[58] Nevertheless, that still means that India offers the largest pool of technically skilled graduates in the world.**
(Same wiki article)

Top 100 universities for Engineering and Technology 2013-14 - Times Higher Education
(A UK publication)

Of 100 schools, zero from India; 36 from US (assuming I counted right). Rankings will vary, but that should tell you something about the quality of these engineers.

Does that not tell you something, namely that these Indian engineers are no more talented than those educated in the US? Did you look at the link I posted from NPR? This idea that India is producing these superior graduates is vastly over-rated.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 04-28-2014 at 11:01 PM..
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Old 04-29-2014, 05:18 AM
 
48,329 posts, read 21,974,161 times
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Originally Posted by psr13 View Post
We do want to abandon public schools, as I do think many of them cannot be fixed. However, paying for private school is not within our ability right now. Like momma_bear, I think that our public schools are failing all students, but I do believe that many of the brighter kids are getting left behind.

Just introducing certain programs could be very beneficial to gifted or bright students and lighten their boredom in school. Having foreign language start in elementary school would be a big thing (hate that most American schools don't have that in the first place).
I think they can be fixed.

The first step would be to sort students into learning groups according to their test scores. One poster wrote about "Walk to math," "Walk to science," "Walk to English," where students stay in the same homeroom with their age mates, but walk to various levels of classes in various subjects. This could be implemented across the country.

The current overemphasis on testing has the side benefit of allowing educators specific information on deficits in knowledge.

This lower groups could focus on the repetition the students need to gain a basic foundation in a subject. All groups could move at the pace they are capable of.

Schools could sort out the poorly behaved into separate classrooms where learning to behave appropriately would be one focus along with academics. Once the students were able to manage their behavior to the point they are not disrupting classes, then they could enter the groups at the level they are capable of.

It is a perfectly sensible solution for everyone but the parents of the slow learners who want to pretend that their kids are capable of keeping up if only teachers would give them extra time and attention they need and modify the curriculum.

Most high schools sort students into SpEd, regular classrooms, and AP/Honors. Why not elementary and middle schools?
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