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Old 12-09-2007, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Tennessee/Michigan
28,192 posts, read 47,512,098 times
Reputation: 19702

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Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1960 - Vice principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his own shotgun to show Jack.

2007 - School goes into lockdown, the FBI is called, Jack is hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again.
Counselors are called in to assist traumatized students and teachers.


Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1960 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies

2007 - Police are called, SWAT team arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. They are charged with assault and both are expelled even though Johnny started it.


Scenario: Jeffrey won't sit still in class and disrupts other students.

1960 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given a good paddling. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra state funding because Jeffrey has a disability.


Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1960 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.


Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some Aspirin to school.

1960 - Mark shares Aspirin with the school principal out on the smoking dock.

2007 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug violations. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.


Scenario: Pedro fails high-school English.

1960 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by local human rights group. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that making English a requirement for graduation is racist.USCivil Liberties Association files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English is banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.


Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover Independence Day firecrackers, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.

1960 - Ants die.

2007 - Homeland Security and the FBI are called and Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.

Scenario: Johnny falls during recess and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.

1960 - Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.

2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in federal prison. Johnny undergoes five years
of therapy.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:06 PM
 
28,139 posts, read 39,748,049 times
Reputation: 36563
Truth is truly stranger than fiction....
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:12 PM
 
Location: on an island
13,382 posts, read 40,853,550 times
Reputation: 13244
This has been posted before.
While there is indeed some truth to it, there is also a heavy dose of hyperbole.
I take many of those scenarios with a grain of salt.
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Old 12-09-2007, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Minnesota
206 posts, read 523,780 times
Reputation: 82
From my own experience, most of that list is simply not true.

For example, fighting at our school tended to result in detention, or if it was serious or a repeat offense, suspension. Expulsion would only occur if someone ended up in the hospital or the like.

Similarly, the thing with the guns, we were always simply told "If you have a gun in your car, leave it in the car and don't so much as touch it while it is on school property." No one was ever dumb enough to disobey said rule.

The SWAT team, FBI, arrests for sexual misconduct, and lawsuits seem rather off the wall to me, and I have never heard of anything like that actually happening. I am sure a lawsuit of that nature has been filed a few times, but I have never heard of one being successful. A lot of it seems to be extremely exaggerated to me.

I can imagine a SWAT team showing up if someone was suspected of making illegal explosives or something, but I have never heard of anything more than confiscation/fines/warnings for things like fireworks/illegal fireworks.

The only one on that list I have ever actually seen is the Ritalin thing, which I think they tend to overuse a lot of the time, albeit I think zombie is a rather strong word.
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Old 12-09-2007, 09:20 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 2,827,461 times
Reputation: 1468
John1960, propaganda is more effective when it can be taken for truth, which means it can't be exaggerated to the point of absurdity. If these are real stories, which I personally doubt, then do us the respect of linking us to your objective and unbiased sources.

Just to take your scenarios one by one, here is what would happen at the school at which I teach, which is fairly typical of many high schools in 2007.


Scenario: Jack goes quail hunting before school, pulls into school parking lot with shotgun in gun rack.

1960 - Vice principal comes over, looks at Jack's shotgun, goes to his car and gets his own shotgun to show Jack.

2007 - School goes into lockdown, the FBI is called, Jack is hauled off to jail and never sees his truck or gun again.
Counselors are called in to assist traumatized students and teachers.


Utter nonsense. If this was an innocent scenario and Jack had no prior discipline offenses, he would be suspended, yes. It's possible that he could be expelled if he had prior discipline offenses or a gang connection.



Scenario: Johnny and Mark get into a fist fight after school.

1960 - Crowd gathers. Mark wins. Johnny and Mark shake hands and end up buddies

2007 - Police are called, SWAT team arrives and arrests Johnny and Mark. They are charged with assault and both are expelled even though Johnny started it.


Again, still nonsense. Having observed -- and broken up -- more than one school fight, what happens is that both students are dragged into the Dean's office and witness statements are taken. Both students receive a three-day suspension, but if there are aggravating circumstances (e.g., a record of physical outbreaks) the student(s) might be suspended for a ten-day or transferred to special programs (basically, a school for repeat discipline problems where getting the GED is the big goal).


Scenario: Jeffrey won't sit still in class and disrupts other students.

1960 - Jeffrey is sent to the principal's office and given a good paddling. Returns to class, sits still and does not disrupt class again.

2007 - Jeffrey is given huge doses of Ritalin. Becomes a zombie. Tested for ADD. School gets extra state funding because Jeffrey has a disability.


Again, I still call bullpuckey. If it's not the teacher's failure to manage his/her class and is genuinely Jeffrey's issue, the teacher follows the school's progressive discipline plan, beginning with talking with the parents and ending with Jeffrey's being removed from class.



Scenario: Billy breaks a window in his neighbor's car and his Dad gives him a whipping with his belt.

1960 - Billy is more careful next time, grows up normal, goes to college, and becomes a successful businessman.

2007 - Billy's dad is arrested for child abuse. Billy is removed to foster care and joins a gang. State psychologist tells Billy's sister that she remembers being abused herself and their dad goes to prison. Billy's mom has an affair with the psychologist.


Are you actually advocating the idea that a whipping with a belt is a positive form of parenting?



Scenario: Mark gets a headache and takes some Aspirin to school.

1960 - Mark shares Aspirin with the school principal out on the smoking dock.

2007 - Police are called and Mark is expelled from School for drug violations. His car is searched for drugs and weapons.


ABSURD. Students have aspirin all the time. They're supposed to give it to the nurse, who's supposed to dispense it to them, but of course none of them do. They just take it in the bathroom when they have a headache and no one gives a rat's caboose.

Scenario: Pedro fails high-school English.

1960 - Pedro goes to summer school, passes English, goes to college.

2007 - Pedro's cause is taken up by local human rights group. Newspaper articles appear nationally explaining that making English a requirement for graduation is racist.USCivil Liberties Association files class action lawsuit against state school system and Pedro's English teacher. English is banned from core curriculum. Pedro is given his diploma anyway but ends up mowing lawns for a living because he cannot speak English.


Really, this is genuinely making me chuckle. Having failed a number of students -- black, white, Asian, Hispanic, Christian, Jewish, Mormon, Philipino, female, male, lesbian, gay, and undecided (and various combinations of the above)-- what's happened is this:

They've taken summer school and passed or not passed.



Scenario: Johnny takes apart leftover Independence Day firecrackers, puts them in a model airplane paint bottle and blows up an anthill.

1960 - Ants die.

2007 - Homeland Security and the FBI are called and Johnny is charged with domestic terrorism. teams investigate parents, siblings are removed from the home, computers are confiscated, and Johnny's dad goes on a terror watch list and is never allowed to fly again.


In my neighborhood? Not hardly.

Scenario: Johnny falls during recess and scrapes his knee. His teacher, Mary, finds him crying, and gives him a hug to comfort him.

1960 - Johnny soon feels better and goes back to playing.

2007 - Mary is accused of being a sexual predator and loses her job. She faces three years in federal prison. Johnny undergoes five years
of therapy.


Again, nonsense. Unless Mary's last name was "LeTourneau."

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Last edited by Charles Wallace; 12-09-2007 at 09:33 PM..
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Old 12-10-2007, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
Reputation: 4899
Heck, in the 60's, we brought our rifles to school (unloaded of course) to take to the range after school - we had a rifle club

Hugs were given out regularly by teachers -

Principals did give swattings

We had smoking area away from the main buildings - teachers and students alike used the same area

Just about all of those listed are right on
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Old 12-10-2007, 11:20 AM
 
1,363 posts, read 5,427,873 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Heck, in the 60's, we brought our rifles to school (unloaded of course) to take to the range after school - we had a rifle club

Hugs were given out regularly by teachers -

Principals did give swattings

We had smoking area away from the main buildings - teachers and students alike used the same area

Just about all of those listed are right on
My father's TEACHERS gave the swattings in the 60s.

Did I miss something? Was I supposed to give this serious analysis or is it ok that I just got a chuckle out of it?
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:01 PM
 
27 posts, read 111,401 times
Reputation: 32
There's a small grain of truth in both scenarios, which makes it slightly humorous. But the rest consists of gross oversimilification.Ssimpler doesn't always mean better.

Do I really want my kids fighting and shaking hands afterward (which somehow makes the confrontation OK) or to come up with a better way to solve a dispute? Do I really want kids bringing guns to school for whatever purpose (how is that appropriate to education) -- how many Columbine's did they have in 1960? Do I want teachers to think twice before they hug a kid, of course not.

Certainly we have lost some innocense since 1960, but I think we've also gained more wisdom in 2007.
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Old 12-10-2007, 01:56 PM
 
1,640 posts, read 4,221,269 times
Reputation: 1002
I'm sure in 1960 there was an old curmudgeon talking about how much simpler things were in 1915.

The older you get, the better things were.
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Old 12-10-2007, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 35,124,653 times
Reputation: 4899
In the '60's, students had more respect for parents. They had more respect for their schools and learning. There was something called "school spirit" which is missing in a lot of schools today.

In the '60's, there was far more discipline in the classroom. Teachers were able to teach more and not have to be babysitters.

In the '60's, if a child did not pass a course, they either retook the course or went to summer school - and/or held back.

In the '60's, those who were disruptive in school, were "farmed out" to what we sometimes referred to as "reform schools".

In the '60's, schools were able to enact and enforce dress codes for students which lessened many of the potential discipline problems of today -

How I wish we could go back to the '60's sometimes
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