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I understand that other children could get sick but you have no idea who is vax or not. Your co worker or cashier at mcdonalds may not vax, are you going to poll everyone you encounter?
That is not the point. We are talking about the fact that most frequently, outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases in this country can be traced to unvaccinated people. In the case of measles, they travel abroad, get infected, then bring it home, where anyone along their trail who is susceptible can be infected, whether they deliberately did not take the vaccine or whether they were one of the few for whom the vaccine did not work.
They infect people in airports, doctors' offices and hospital ERs. The whole chain of events could have been prevented if the person who traveled out of the country (or the tourist who brought it with him) had been vaccinated.
The church, which had been vocally anti-vaccine, held a vaccination clinic after people started getting sick. So much for religious objections to vaccines.
This year, the Philippines have been the source for many imported measles cases:
That is not the point. We are talking about the fact that most frequently, outbreaks of vaccine preventable diseases in this country can be traced to unvaccinated people. In the case of measles, they travel abroad, get infected, then bring it home, where anyone along their trail who is susceptible can be infected, whether they deliberately did not take the vaccine or whether they were one of the few for whom the vaccine did not work.
They infect people in airports, doctors' offices and hospital ERs. The whole chain of events could have been prevented if the person who traveled out of the country (or the tourist who brought it with him) had been vaccinated.
The church, which had been vocally anti-vaccine, held a vaccination clinic after people started getting sick. So much for religious objections to vaccines.
This year, the Philippines have been the source for many imported measles cases:
Yes, and a whooping cough outbreak was traced to a failed vaccine. Thankfully that mistake allowed us to dig deeper and realize we had to make a booster requirement. Nothing is fool proof. You are right an un-vaccinated child can catch an illness, so can a vaccinated one. The chances we all take on as humans. Life is full of chances. Everyone vaccinating won't prevent this, only strengthen it.
Measles outbreak, failed immunity: "This is the first report of measles transmission from a twice vaccinated individual. The clinical presentation and laboratory data of the index were typical of measles in a naïve individual. Secondary cases had robust anamnestic antibody responses. No tertiary cases occurred despite numerous contacts. This outbreak underscores the need for thorough epidemiologic and laboratory investigation of suspected measles cases regardless of vaccination status" Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011
These cases are rare but happen, un vaccinated kids can also cause an outbreak, rare but happens. With a high vaccine rate, both are rare. We already have a high vaccine rate despite everyone speculating. The fact is most vaccinate, and that is continuing to grow on it's own without mandating.
If one child suffered ill effects on your advice it would be hard to live with. That is why we make our own choices. Even if only a few suffer damage from a vaccine, best it was their parents choice to take that chance and not yours. It might seem like a small amount of collateral damage to you, or rare but for the parent of that child it's just horrible.
I hope you read this and try and understand why I think this should be a parents choice. Ian's Voice
Vaccinate your kids, and just be secure with your own choices. You can take your own advice and protect your kids from disease either from a non vaccinated person or one who's vaccine failed to immune them.
We are all subject to disease and illness we don't have vaccines for, it's part of life. But vaccines are a choice, not a fact of life. To mandate means to take on all collateral damage. Even one death of a child. Parents have to be willing to take this chance themselves in my opinion.
Do you know if mandating vaccines will exempt them from liability? Will it remove your ability to claim damages from the vaccine? I'd like to know more about that one. Does it render you with no recourse if you agree to mandating vaccines?
I mentioned the flu vaccine only in response to Mark's comment about effectiveness rates.
So you are saying that higher vaccination rates will strengthen - what? Yes, vaccines are under continuous surveillance, to pick up complications and look for the possibility that additional boosters may be needed. Why is that a reason not to vaccinate? Why is a single case report of one individual who did not respond to the measles vaccine important? Because it is so astonishingly rare that it was deemed newsworthy. It's not vaccinated people that are causing measles outbreaks.
Anyone who has a recognized adverse event due to a vaccine can be compensated, including adults. Mandates make no difference.
Severe injuries and deaths do happen with vaccines, but they happen far less frequently with vaccines than they do with the diseases that vaccines prevent. Why is that so hard to understand? Why is Ian's story tragic but a death from liver cancer due to chronic hepatitis B is not?
I think you have to be willing to accept this regardless of getting vaccinated or not. Vaccines are not 100% effective. You should be careful acting like they are.
Yes, you hope you are protected but without knowing it you could also spread a virus you only thought you had immunity to.
Everyone, without knowledge can place themselves in this position. At least those who are not vaccinated think of it as a possibility. Most people who are vaccinated, like you, assume they are disease supermen. They are not.
Sure, vaccines can fail. Most are highly effective. That is why you do not see vaccinated people importing measles from the Philippines.
Infants under a year of age cannot get the measles vaccine, but they can get very sick from the disease. People with suppressed immune systems, e.g. on cancer chemo, high dose steroids, some other medical conditions can't be immunized, and in some cases neither can their family members. These people are all vulnerable to unimmunized people.
So when an unvaccinated child with the measles goes to the doctor's office, all the infants who are too young for the vaccine are exposed to a disease for which there is no treatment. Lovely.
I don't think anyone would argue with a vaccine being less expensive than treating cancer or a illness that became life threatening. You should take more care when replying to others posts.
Plus, I think you should re evaluate what that article meant when stating costs. It's not what you think.
Oh, you were agreeing? Sure didn't sound like it. I posted a link about each $1 of vaccine saving $10 in health costs and you responded:
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
I don't think anyone thinks this Katiana.
So you don't think anyone agrees with that? Perhaps YOU should take more care when you post instead of telling other people how to post.
That is similar to the antivirals for flu. And just how is that better than getting a vaccine that will prevent the disease from occurring in most cases? If you have any issues with what's in vaccines, you face the same things with meds. If you have issues with "big pharma" (which I was accused, early in this thread, of aiding and abetting), the same issues are here.
As far as the anti-measles drug, here is the last sentence of your article: "While the drug is very encouraging thus far, additional research is needed before it could be considered for use in humans."
It's probably years off. Meanwhile, 30% of people who get measles have complications including encephalitis which can cause brain damage, and 1 to 2 out of every thousand who get it in developed countries mind you, not Africa, die. Any immunization that had as high a reaction rate would be removed from the market. Prior to the vaccine, virtually 100% of the population got measles.
Yes, and a whooping cough outbreak was traced to a failed vaccine. Thankfully that mistake allowed us to dig deeper and realize we had to make a booster requirement. Nothing is fool proof. You are right an un-vaccinated child can catch an illness, so can a vaccinated one. The chances we all take on as humans. Life is full of chances. Everyone vaccinating won't prevent this, only strengthen it.
Measles outbreak, failed immunity: "This is the first report of measles transmission from a twice vaccinated individual. The clinical presentation and laboratory data of the index were typical of measles in a naïve individual. Secondary cases had robust anamnestic antibody responses. No tertiary cases occurred despite numerous contacts. This outbreak underscores the need for thorough epidemiologic and laboratory investigation of suspected measles cases regardless of vaccination status" Outbreak of Measles Among Persons With Prior Evidence of Immunity, New York City, 2011
These cases are rare but happen, un vaccinated kids can also cause an outbreak, rare but happens. With a high vaccine rate, both are rare. We already have a high vaccine rate despite everyone speculating. The fact is most vaccinate, and that is continuing to grow on it's own without mandating.
If one child suffered ill effects on your advice it would be hard to live with. That is why we make our own choices. Even if only a few suffer damage from a vaccine, best it was their parents choice to take that chance and not yours. It might seem like a small amount of collateral damage to you, or rare but for the parent of that child it's just horrible.
I hope you read this and try and understand why I think this should be a parents choice. Ian's Voice
Vaccinate your kids, and just be secure with your own choices. You can take your own advice and protect your kids from disease either from a non vaccinated person or one who's vaccine failed to immune them.
We are all subject to disease and illness we don't have vaccines for, it's part of life. But vaccines are a choice, not a fact of life. To mandate means to take on all collateral damage. Even one death of a child. Parents have to be willing to take this chance themselves in my opinion.
Do you know if mandating vaccines will exempt them from liability? Will it remove your ability to claim damages from the vaccine? I'd like to know more about that one. Does it render you with no recourse if you agree to mandating vaccines?
No one knows for sure what THE ultimate cause of the California pertussis epidemic, which killed 10 babies, was. There are many ideas and leads, but no one cause. It was not vaccine failure, it was waning immunity. http://www.healio.com/pediatrics/new...ussis-outbreak
**There are a number of factors that contributed to the recent pertussis outbreak in California, including waning immunity to diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis vaccines and a lack of vaccination among certain populations, according to the latest data presented at recent meetings.**
The booster vaccine for adolescents has been recommended since 2006. Tdap has nothing to do with vaccine failure; it has to do with waning immunity, something those of us who worked in immunizations were long familiar with.
Someone else posted about that measles case in another thread. The woman is a statistical outlier. Your link didn't work, but I read either that link or another and that's what the conclusion was. Yes, that's a problem with health care. There are always outliers, that lead to anecdotes that lead to . . .
Here's an article from the WaPo that explains it in layman's terms: Measles cases are spreading, despite high vaccination rates. What
** Even worse, a case study published in February about a woman dubbed “Measles Mary” described a scenario that scientists had not known was possible: In 2011, the 22-year-old New York theater worker, who had been vaccinated, not only contracted the disease but also passed it along to four others, two of whom had also been vaccinated.
While this was very rare — it was the first documented case of a vaccinated person passing measles along to others — the case illustrates how the disease can pose a threat even to those who have had their measles vaccine.. . . **
Plus more. Read the article.
Read more. My interpretaion of that article is that we'll see more of the above if measles gets endemic in this country.
Please post credible links to any deaths attributed to vaccines.
Last edited by Katarina Witt; 06-24-2014 at 07:51 AM..
I mentioned the flu vaccine only in response to Mark's comment about effectiveness rates.
So you are saying that higher vaccination rates will strengthen - what? Herd immunity.
Yes, vaccines are under continuous surveillance, to pick up complications and look for the possibility that additional boosters may be needed. Why is that a reason not to vaccinate? No one said it was, this is just your bully attitude.
Why is a single case report of one individual who did not respond to the measles vaccine important? Again, nobody is pitting one against the other but you.
Because it is so astonishingly rare that it was deemed newsworthy. It's not vaccinated people that are causing measles outbreaks. Dying from measles in America is also, extremely rare.
Anyone who has a recognized adverse event due to a vaccine can be compensated, including adults. Mandates make no difference. Are you sure about this one?
Severe injuries and deaths do happen with vaccines, but they happen far less frequently with vaccines than they do with the diseases that vaccines prevent. Why is that so hard to understand? Why is Ian's story tragic but a death from liver cancer due to chronic hepatitis B is not?
Again, nobody said one was more tragic than the other, but when talking to you it seems necessary to point out that both are tragic, you come across as belittling to those who don't vaccinate. Imply they don't care about children dying, or being ill, including their own.
I think you'd better serve your agenda by understanding others fear and putting them at ease instead of threatening them with mandates. Understanding and education has been working well. Your patience is needed, not mandates.
No one knows for sure what THE ultimate cause of the California pertussis epidemic, which killed 10 babies, was. There are many ideas and leads, but no one cause. It was not vaccine failure, it was waning immunity. Myriad causes contributed to California pertussis outbreak | Infectious Diseases in Children
**There are a number of factors that contributed to the recent pertussis outbreak in California, including waning immunity to diphtheria and tetanus toxoids and acellular pertussis vaccines and a lack of vaccination among certain populations, according to the latest data presented at recent meetings.**
The booster vaccine for adolescents has been recommended since 2006. Tdap has nothing to do with vaccine failure; it has to do with waning immunity, something those of us who worked in immunizations were long familiar with.
Someone else posted about that measles case in another thread. The woman is a statistical outlier. Your link didn't work, but I read either that link or another and that's what the conclusion was. Yes, that's a problem with health care. There are always outliers, that lead to anecdotes that lead to . . .
Here's an article from the WaPo that explains it in layman's terms: Measles cases are spreading, despite high vaccination rates. What
** Even worse, a case study published in February about a woman dubbed “Measles Mary” described a scenario that scientists had not known was possible: In 2011, the 22-year-old New York theater worker, who had been vaccinated, not only contracted the disease but also passed it along to four others, two of whom had also been vaccinated.
While this was very rare — it was the first documented case of a vaccinated person passing measles along to others — the case illustrates how the disease can pose a threat even to those who have had their measles vaccine.. . . **
Plus more. Read the article.
Read more. My interpretaion of that article is that we'll see more of the above if measles gets endemic in this country.
Please post credible links to any deaths attributed to vaccines.
Again, and it's getting tiring Katiana, you don't know either!! So stop it with the accusations of parents who don't vaccinate. They have their reasons, they are a small % of parents.
A vaccine that does not last as long as projected is a vaccine failure. Do your homework. To bring back to successful status a booster will be recommended. Vaccine failure - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I hate using wiki but you can find this info anywhere, its common knowledge.
And, I think you should read the bold above and apply it to your self as well as what comes out of your mouth. What if's don't count. Historic numbers don't apply to current situations again, those are what if's. The unvaccinated do not currently pose a large enough threat to warrant mandates, there numbers have been progressively dwindling. More and more people are vaccinated.
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You think it's cheaper to treat disease than vaccinate? 