Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 06-22-2014, 09:36 PM
 
26,646 posts, read 13,608,994 times
Reputation: 19104

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
I choose to believe the scientists who have evaluated the VAERS reports and shown that very few of the claimed adverse events are actually due to vaccines. Anyone can report anything to VAERS. Someone can file a report saying they saw someone on TV who said her child had an adverse reaction to a vaccine. That does not mean the vaccine unequivocally was the cause of the adverse event. VAERS exists to look for patterns. If fifty people report different adverse events, the vaccine is probably not the cause. There are rare adverse effects of vaccines that are supported by scientific evidence and for which there is compensation available when they happen.

Some of the kids who died from influenza had underlying illnesses. Forty percent were otherwise healthy. I am sure you believe they would not have gotten so sick if they had been given the right vitamins or supplements or washed their hands better, but the fact is that they were healthy until they got the flu.

Personally, I believe no child should ever need to be hospitalized for an illness that can be prevented by a vaccine, even if the illness is not fatal.

For every connection between autoimmune diseases and vaccines that has been studied, none has been found to exist. After all the money that was wasted on disproving that vaccines cause autism, we do not need to waste more trying to make vaccines the scapegoat for every chronic illness known to medicine.

No one claims vaccines will prevent everyone from ever getting sick. That is no reason not to prevent what we can.

And, yes, when an illness occurs because a vaccine fails, it is commonly less severe. In fact, if someone who has been vaccinated is admitted to the hospital for influenza, that is a sentinel event. Infectious disease experts want to evaluate those cases, because it may be a sign the virus is changing if the infection was indeed due to one of the strains in the vaccine, not one that was not covered by the vaccine, and the vaccine was given at least two weeks before the onset of illness.
Statistics and studies can be biased. There is so much we don't know because not every single thing has been studied. The possibility of a link between autoimmune disease and vaccination has barely been given any attention. There needs to be studies on this. It's a valid concern and definitely not a waste of money.

Back on topic, would you like to see all exemptions waived? Would you like to play a role in forcing people to get vaccinated for things like rotavirus, Hep B and varicella who do not want to for a wide variety of reasons?

 
Old 06-22-2014, 10:23 PM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,552,638 times
Reputation: 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
This is not true. please stop repeating it.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/35341032-post57.html



You do not want to vaccinate, but you cheerfully enjoy the safety provided by those in America that do. Despite your wish to believe otherwise, outbreaks in this country of vaccine preventable illness are usually traced to unvaccinated index cases.



Most parents do vaccinate, and that is the reason most unvaccinated kids do not get sick. However, the trend for fewer parents to vaccinate and for those who do not vaccinate to cluster in the same communities presents a clear and present danger to community health. that's not fear-mongering, just a statement of fact.



You have already over-stated this "crisis", which has nothing to do with vaccines anyway. Severe adverse effects from vaccines are extremely rare --- and a lot less likely to happen than severe or fatal complications from the diseases that vaccines prevent.




All of this is just a smoke screen for parents unwilling to accept any risk, no matter how small, from vaccines, and just hide in the herd, protected by those that do vaccinate.

The fear mongers are the ones who insist vaccines are dangerous, including the continuing belief that vaccines cause autism, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

The notion that the doctors and researchers who develop vaccines and administer them do not care about patients is just too obnoxious for words.
Where did I state any where in my posts that I do not get my kids vaccinated? I have indeed had all my kids vaccinated. You are just proving you've not read my posts either. Which to me means you are agenda driven, it doesn't matter who has an opinion on here as long as the agenda is accomplished.
I as a parent had every right to choose if my kids were vaccinated, I chose to vaccinate. So have the majority of this country. You don't have to promote a vaccine agenda with fear, name calling or scare tactics. I have vaccinated kids and I am not afraid of un vaccinated kids nor do I think their parents are endangering my children. Hyperbowl!
Parents are quite capable of making decisions about their kids health. They have their reasons.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,273,714 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I stand by my words, 7% is a small minority. I take it you'd like to see all exemptions eliminated? Is that what your goal is?
Goal? I'm not a member of the Colorado legislature. 7% is a large number, epidemiological. I co assure you that if any vaccine had a 7% reaction rate, the anti-vaxers would be up in arms. Check, they think 1 reaction in a million doses is too high.
 
Old 06-22-2014, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,981 posts, read 40,961,186 times
Reputation: 44901
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Statistics and studies can be biased. There is so much we don't know because not every single thing has been studied. The possibility of a link between autoimmune disease and vaccination has barely been given any attention. There needs to be studies on this. It's a valid concern and definitely not a waste of money.

Back on topic, would you like to see all exemptions waived? Would you like to play a role in forcing people to get vaccinated for things like rotavirus, Hep B and varicella who do not want to for a wide variety of reasons?
It seems that unless a study shows what you want it to, it must be biased. You ignore the fact that vaccines are continuously monitored for safety. Here's one for Gardasil:

Surveillance of autoimmune conditions following... [J Intern Med. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

No signal for an increased incidence of autoimmune diseases was found. Large, ongoing studies do look for possible complications of vaccines, not just autoimmune diseases. No, not every single thing has been studied, every single thing will never be studied, and a perfect vaccine with no risk of adverse effects will never be produced. However, for every single vaccine we have the risk from the disease is many times greater than the risk from the vaccine.

I think that exemptions from vaccines should be for medical indications only. No one should get to hide in the herd.

Even if you are willing to accept the risk of being in an automobile accident by driving the wrong way down a one way street, you are not allowed to do that because you could hurt someone else. The same should be true with vaccines. The difficulty is that people who fear vaccines are basing their fears on faulty information, mostly internet myths that have been debunked ad nauseum.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
36,981 posts, read 40,961,186 times
Reputation: 44901
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Where did I state any where in my posts that I do not get my kids vaccinated? I have indeed had all my kids vaccinated. You are just proving you've not read my posts either. Which to me means you are agenda driven, it doesn't matter who has an opinion on here as long as the agenda is accomplished.
I as a parent had every right to choose if my kids were vaccinated, I chose to vaccinate. So have the majority of this country. You don't have to promote a vaccine agenda with fear, name calling or scare tactics. I have vaccinated kids and I am not afraid of un vaccinated kids nor do I think their parents are endangering my children. Hyperbowl!
Parents are quite capable of making decisions about their kids health. They have their reasons.
The tone of your post implied you do not accept all vaccines. Certainly you did not come across as supportive of convincing other parents to use them.

Maybe you do not see the threat that dropping vaccination rates pose. I assure you that the infectious disease experts do.

Opting-Out Of Vaccines; Dipping Below Herd Immunity | CommonHealth

Too Many Children Go Unvaccinated - Scientific American

Vaccine exemptions in California threaten herd immunity – Respectful Insolence

Pockets of Vaccine Noncompliance in California « Science-Based Medicine

The reasons that parents choose not to vaccinate are based on misinformation without a scientific basis. My agenda is to refute that.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 12:09 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,552,638 times
Reputation: 7544
[quote=[B]suzy[/b]_q2010;35348590]

I think that exemptions from vaccines should be for medical indications only. No one should get to hide in the herd.

No one should get to hide in the herd???

As usual this thread was started for this very purpose. To start a fight as means to convince parents to give up their rights to choose whats best for their own kids. To pit pro vaccine against anti vaccine, and to gather a belittling group against those who don't vaccinate, as to achieve said goal for justifying vaccine mandates.

Even though the majority of parents already make sound medical choices for their kids, whether they vaccinate or not.

There is no medical basis for this hysteria, we have a high vaccination rate in America. As I stated before as others on here have stated: You can vaccinate your children and still be against taking the parental right to choose away. It's not black and white, one side against another.


This is trolling at it's finest. This type of thread usually just ends up getting shut down, as you and Katiana already know. It's not productive.

There are better ways to promote vaccinating. Forcing people to vaccinate is useless and destructive to your cause. Educating people, and easing their fears, and letting them come to their own conclusions would be the right thing to do. IMO, of course.

Checks and balances are important, freedom to make the right choices, and above all freedom to raise your own children. You have the right to protect your children by vaccinating them, after that, you have no more rights. You do not have the right to make others vaccinate. If they don't that's there choice.

I'm afraid your efforts at scaring people into mandating vaccines will prove to do the opposite. You might just drive people who were on the fence about vaccinating away, fearing government control. Fearing this is all a money making venture by lobbying vaccine producers. What if that's all you accomplish?

Last edited by PoppySead; 06-23-2014 at 12:32 AM..
 
Old 06-23-2014, 12:31 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 11,552,638 times
Reputation: 7544
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The tone of your post implied you do not accept all vaccines. Certainly you did not come across as supportive of convincing other parents to use them.

Maybe you do not see the threat that dropping vaccination rates pose. I assure you that the infectious disease experts do.

Opting-Out Of Vaccines; Dipping Below Herd Immunity | CommonHealth

Too Many Children Go Unvaccinated - Scientific American

Vaccine exemptions in California threaten herd immunity – Respectful Insolence

Pockets of Vaccine Noncompliance in California « Science-Based Medicine

The reasons that parents choose not to vaccinate are based on misinformation without a scientific basis. My agenda is to refute that.
Oh, so now you can tell by the tone of peoples post whether they vaccinate their kids or not. Wow, you are pretty impressive. Maybe if I had those powers to I would feel I should control others lives.

So you assume the reasons for parents choices as well. Nice, and of course you have secret powers so it's scientific on your end.

And why may I ask is this your agenda? Because your magic?

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/811769
Running the numbers: US vaccination rates up ever so slightly; New Jersey way below national average - The Panic Virus
mbers-us-vaccination-rates-up-ever-so-slightly-new-jersey-way-below-national-average/
Yay, good news America! Come New Jersey, you can do it!!

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/h...ge-in-25-years
Yay, good news U.K.

See, you can promote well being without scaring people with what if's and impending crisis.

I am against mandates. Plain and simple. Isn't that the OP's agenda and yours. Forcing others to vaccinate or risk losing their child's right to a public education.

Last edited by PoppySead; 06-23-2014 at 12:45 AM..
 
Old 06-23-2014, 07:35 AM
 
26,646 posts, read 13,608,994 times
Reputation: 19104
[quote=PoppySead;35348886]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
suzy[/b]_q2010;35348590]

"I think that exemptions from vaccines should be for medical indications only. No one should get to hide in the herd." ~Suzy

No one should get to hide in the herd???

As usual this thread was started for this very purpose. To start a fight as means to convince parents to give up their rights to choose what's best for their own kids. To pit pro vaccine against anti vaccine, and to gather a belittling group against those who don't vaccinate, as to achieve said goal for justifying vaccine mandates.

Even though the majority of parents already make sound medical choices for their kids, whether they vaccinate or not.

There is no medical basis for this hysteria, we have a high vaccination rate in America. As I stated before as others on here have stated: You can vaccinate your children and still be against taking the parental right to choose away. It's not black and white, one side against another.


This is trolling at it's finest. This type of thread usually just ends up getting shut down, as you and Katiana already know. It's not productive.

There are better ways to promote vaccinating. Forcing people to vaccinate is useless and destructive to your cause. Educating people, and easing their fears, and letting them come to their own conclusions would be the right thing to do. IMO, of course.

Checks and balances are important, freedom to make the right choices, and above all freedom to raise your own children. You have the right to protect your children by vaccinating them, after that, you have no more rights. You do not have the right to make others vaccinate. If they don't that's there choice.

I'm afraid your efforts at scaring people into mandating vaccines will prove to do the opposite. You might just drive people who were on the fence about vaccinating away, fearing government control. Fearing this is all a money making venture by lobbying vaccine producers. What if that's all you accomplish?
Great post, poppy. I agree with you, especially in regards to the bolded. This is not a black and white issue. I always find it crazy that people will get berated in these threads for not going 100% with the vaccine schedule. If you skip one or two or more vaccines, you are "anti-science", a "ticking time bomb disease vector" or a "Jenny McCarthy follower who can't think for his or herself". It's so absurd. There is so much fear mongering on these threads and it has becoming increasingly clear that some posters would love to force all vaccines on others through coercive methods. In this instance it's barring public school admission to kids who have not had all of their vaccines. In another it may be about penalties, fines and lawsuits. There is no emergency warranting this type of talk and I think that it's an extremely dangerous idea to even want to force vaccines on everyone. It's actually frightening to know that there are people in this world who desire high levels of control over others such as this.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 08:00 AM
 
14,327 posts, read 14,129,578 times
Reputation: 45544
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Where did I state any where in my posts that I do not get my kids vaccinated? I have indeed had all my kids vaccinated. You are just proving you've not read my posts either. Which to me means you are agenda driven, it doesn't matter who has an opinion on here as long as the agenda is accomplished.
I as a parent had every right to choose if my kids were vaccinated, I chose to vaccinate. So have the majority of this country. You don't have to promote a vaccine agenda with fear, name calling or scare tactics. I have vaccinated kids and I am not afraid of un vaccinated kids nor do I think their parents are endangering my children. Hyperbowl!
Parents are quite capable of making decisions about their kids health. They have their reasons.

Immunization is a proven way to prevent hordes of deadly infectious diseases. So, I've never understood the concept of the "personal exemption" from vaccination.

What freedom does someone get by refusing to vaccinate? The freedom to catch and to spread a deadly disease? The freedom to put innocent children who don't know any better at risk of dying or suffering a severe illness? These children who are not vaccinated, do not live on a desert island. They are part of society every time they go to a grocery store, to church, to school.

On the other hand, I would argue that vaccinating children actually gives them more freedom than they had before. They are virtually immune from catching a whole series of diseases that historically caused an enormous amount of mortality and morbidity. They experience greater safety because of this choice. Both the child and the child's family have greater freedom and flexibility because of vaccination.

This is why vaccination should be compulsory and not a choice.
 
Old 06-23-2014, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,273,714 times
Reputation: 35920
[quote=PoppySead;35348886]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
suzy[/b]_q2010;35348590]

I think that exemptions from vaccines should be for medical indications only. No one should get to hide in the herd.

No one should get to hide in the herd???

As usual this thread was started for this very purpose. To start a fight as means to convince parents to give up their rights to choose whats best for their own kids. To pit pro vaccine against anti vaccine, and to gather a belittling group against those who don't vaccinate, as to achieve said goal for justifying vaccine mandates.

Even though the majority of parents already make sound medical choices for their kids, whether they vaccinate or not.

There is no medical basis for this hysteria, we have a high vaccination rate in America. As I stated before as others on here have stated: You can vaccinate your children and still be against taking the parental right to choose away. It's not black and white, one side against another.


This is trolling at it's finest. This type of thread usually just ends up getting shut down, as you and Katiana already know. It's not productive.

There are better ways to promote vaccinating. Forcing people to vaccinate is useless and destructive to your cause. Educating people, and easing their fears, and letting them come to their own conclusions would be the right thing to do. IMO, of course.

Checks and balances are important, freedom to make the right choices, and above all freedom to raise your own children. You have the right to protect your children by vaccinating them, after that, you have no more rights. You do not have the right to make others vaccinate. If they don't that's there choice.

I'm afraid your efforts at scaring people into mandating vaccines will prove to do the opposite. You might just drive people who were on the fence about vaccinating away, fearing government control. Fearing this is all a money making venture by lobbying vaccine producers. What if that's all you accomplish?
If you feel this is a trolling thread, you need not participate.

While you chide someone for their comments about the tone of your posts, you seem to think you can read my mind, know exactly why I started this thread, and that I started it to cause an argument. You have called me several names already, now you're accusing me of "hysteria".
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top