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You are "whooping" a 12-year-old girl? I'll bet school isn't the only thing she dislikes.
And by the way, what does NMSF stand for other than the National Marine Sanctuary Foundation?
what can I say, I come from an "old school" family. My parents believed firmly in "spare the rod, spoil the child"...raised 5 of us this way. No one died, went to jail, got on drugs, got anyone pregnant/became pregnant...now all 5 of us DID go to college, graduate, get good jobs and are living productive lives. Where we the Brady Bunch growing up? Not even close, but we turned out alright. So I'll do the same with my kids. No "timeouts" or any of that psychobabble. Discipline. My kid may not "like" it...that's the point. S dont do anything that will get you a whooping. Your mileage may vary
NMSF also stands for National Merit Scholarship Foundation. The reason why it's kind of a big deal down here in Texas is because if you do well enough to become a National Merit Scholar, you get full rides at several schools in this area; Lousiana State University, University of Oklahoma, University of Alabama are just a few of the schools in the region that have scholarships for this.
Sorry but I think it's wrong to not sit with her. And I don't mean at 10:00 at night.
You NEED to KNOW that the material was reviewed CORRECTLY and be able to be INVOLVED to EVALUATE why she's missing deadlines etc. You need to help her with organizational skills perhaps.
The B grades aren't really the problem but it sounds like she has more going on than JUST getting over a C.
As far as I'm concerned your wife HAD her opportunity to FINISH SCHOOL. BEFORE bringing a life into the world that also has to succeed at school.
I also suggest that you and your wife evaluate if she's really getting the attention she NEEDS from the two of you and I don't mean stupid crap but actually FAMILY TIME. MEALS, etc.
Because IF you were involved you'd already KNOW she has those projects OR you'd have a system in place wherein it would be REQUIRED of her to chart it. BUT if you never ask or are asking when rushing her off in the car to drop her off....well....
I will say my son had a coupla weird developmental lags and his math teacher REFUSED to honor his IEP so I pulled him out of math and got a tutor. He remembered that material to this day. So a tutor can be good.
But it's no replacement for YOU. And I don't mean you rushing or impatient or fake but actually INVOLVED in a sincere nice way and not a naggy way.
She will know if you guys are inauthentic, she'll feel it immediately.
So basically you want HER and her TUTOR to do all the "work" while you adults lead busy lives.
Probably not gonna work out so great.
Maybe she'd enjoy seeing your wife's "homework" and they can do their studies together.
BTW projects are HARD and all the other parents do them for their special snowflakes so when your kid does her own it looks like crap. Just FYI LOL.
It could also be as simple as she's on the internet and FACEBOOK every waking moment. Do you KNOW what she's doing with her time or is she hanging in her ROOM with the door closed and tv on?
Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-28-2014 at 09:47 PM..
I know two National Merit Scholarship Finalists quite well, one is my sister and the other is my niece.
I don't know if it is typical or not but both were straight A students from elementary school through HS, both were always very self-motivating, both always gave all that they could in all academic matters, both did voluntary extra credit work even when they already had an A+ in the class, both were very active in extra-curricular activities, both were smart enough & respected enough that their classmates came to them to ask for tutoring or help in classes, and yes, both received full ride scholarships to the top University in our state (and full scholarships to other Universities as well).
Frankly, I doubt if you can turn your daughter into a National Merit Scholarship Finalist. If she would be heading for that top honor she would be managing her time and studies very well independently by now.
However, you can take some of the ideas from other posters and help your daughter become much more successful in school and possibly she can receive other scholarship opportunities.
I know two National Merit Scholarship Finalists quite well, one is my sister and the other is my niece.
I don't know if it is typical or not but both were straight A students from elementary school through HS, both were always very self-motivating, both always gave all that they could in all academic matters, both did voluntary extra credit work even when they already had an A+ in the class, both were very active in extra-curricular activities, both were smart enough & respected enough that their classmates came to them to ask for tutoring or help in classes, and yes, both received full ride scholarships to the top University in our state (and full scholarships to other Universities as well).
Frankly, I doubt if you can turn your daughter into a National Merit Scholarship Finalist. If she would be heading for that top honor she would be managing her time and studies very well independently by now.
However, you can take some of the ideas from other posters and help your daughter become much more successful in school and possibly she can receive other scholarship opportunities.
I totally agree with the above. This isn't something "you" cam make happen for your daughter, she has to want it as well, and she has to have the natural ability. (do you or your wife have the natural ability?) I believe less than 1% of the population qualifies. Is she in the 1%? From your posts, I think she is in the 99%.
Instead of pushing for the National Merit, make a backup plan. Start a college fund, let her know when she is old enough, she needs a job. Let her know, college will be her financial responsibility.
One final question. You stated how you were raised. You turned out fine with the whooping, etc. If your parents had wanted you to be a national merit finalist would you have been able to do it? Most of us probably would not have been able to achieve that goal no matter how hard we worked. There are many, many people that graduate from college without debt. They chose a plan they could afford.
I'm sorry to be so harsh but you simply have to find the time to help her. The reason she doesn't care about doing well in school is that you don't seem to care enough to help her do well in school. You and your wife simply have to find the time to help her. Lots of people are busy but still help their kids.
At her age she probably needs more help with organization than anything else. Help her. She needs your help. If you have time to punish her you have time to help her.
I have three (now adult) kids. We raised them all the same and they are all great adults but they were all different students even though their grades in HS ended up similar, around 3.5 GPA, just above avg. SAT scores. All ended up getting very good merit scholarships to colleges. One of my kids was very similar to your daughter and just was not internally motivated. We did the same things that you are doing with the carrot and stick approach. Truly, not much changed with any of our methods, except we had some very angry times when we were all frustrated. The other two kids were much more internally motivated and just plain wanted to succeed. I really believe that has to come from inside. Both of these young adults figured out an interest path and that helped spur them on. Having peers that were similarly motivated was also invaluable.
When we were looking for colleges I spent a lot of time in the parents section of this bulletin board - Parents Forum - College Confidential and one of the best lines I heard was when looking for colleges was to "love the kid on the couch". That is, instead of trying to make your kid into a certain type to get into a certain college, you look for a college that fits them, as they are right then.
I don't agree with much help for homework, except for overseeing that it's done or if your daughter asks for help. Your kids grades are supposed to be a reflection of her work, not her parents. I don't think it matters if another parent does their kids homework for them - they are going to be the ones in big trouble in college. I think the goal is to raise your child to be an independent adult, not to get good grades to save money for college admission.
I don't agree with much help for homework, except for overseeing that it's done or if your daughter asks for help. Your kids grades are supposed to be a reflection of her work, not her parents. I don't think it matters if another parent does their kids homework for them - they are going to be the ones in big trouble in college. I think the goal is to raise your child to be an independent adult, not to get good grades to save money for college admission.
I agree with much of what you say. The thing is that this young lady has never had the benefit of her parents help. She never learned how to organize herself or manage her time. Most kids learn this when they are younger because their parents HELP. This young lady has not had this help. She needs it.
I agree with much of what you say. The thing is that this young lady has never had the benefit of her parents help. She never learned how to organize herself or manage her time. Most kids learn this when they are younger because their parents HELP. This young lady has not had this help. She needs it.
We cross posted Momma_bear. I think there is a difference between spending time with kids, helping with homework and doing it for them. I love this quote from John Marshall, "People don't care how much you know until they know how much you care”. I don't think that's psycho-babble, I think that's how healthy families operate. We also used tutors to help with math when our youngest was in HS. He understood how the school was teaching calculus and because he was closer to our son's age, it just made it more palatable. Since your daughter seems to understand the material, OP, I'm not sure how a tutor will help.
No matter how busy we were, we always had dinner together at the table. That's a good time to re-hash the day, talk over homework and upcoming plans. For my kids after dinner was when they would do their homework, often right at the kitchen table. After school, before dinner was down time or instrument practice time. Every family is different but that worked for us.
I agree with most of the posters in this thread, but also have to ask if you really know your daughter. What are her interests? How about her maturity level? Does she resent the "whoopings"? (at twelve, you can bet she does. She's far too old for physical punishment, which is ineffective with kids this age anyway and is highly likely to create distance and damage communication and honesty rather than trust in her parents).
So - as I suggested to another frustrated father in another thread - get to know your daughter. It's summertime now, so lighten up on school related concerns and tensions. Do something fun together - take her out for a banana split, go for a walk, play miniature golf - doesn't really matter, just something fun and stress-free that gives you time to hang out and have fun together and that will help counter the adversarial relationship you've established. You want her to know she can always turn to you when she needs to, no matter what, though she is also responsible for her own stuff.
And widen your focus. Adult success can take many forms, and few adults are National Merit Scholarship Finalists. Look into other ways to finance college: loans, scholarships which are offered to kids in particular groups, savings accounts, and so on. Meanwhile, encourage your daughter to read widely. Most Merit Scholars are good readers who enjoy recreational reading immensely and who've established this habit in childhood, well before the age of twelve. Recreational reading builds vocabulary and adds to general knowledge, narrative ability, and general joy in life. Whether or not your daughter ever wins a scholarship, she will never lose out by being a reader.
At twelve, your daughter may still be very much a child, and college is likely to seem very far away to her. She sounds like a dreamer, too, who isn't good at organizing her time. That's something you CAN help her with, by giving her a notebook in which to jot down assignments, or by having a word with her teachers to make sure they keep you in the loop about big projects.
Does she have a quiet, comfortable place to do her homework without being interrupted by others? Does she understand the concepts being taught? Does she have access to reference materials, either online or tangible? Make sure all these things are in place for her before berating her for not getting things done in a timely fashion. Something as simple as setting a timer while she works on math problems or similar things can be helpful in raising her awareness of the passage of time. Having a calendar with due dates starred can also help.
You could also help her with big projects by using the calendar to break down the project into manageable pieces: By the end of the first week, do the basic research and take notes (make sure she knows how to take notes). By the second week, have the outline done (make sure she knows how to outline). By the third week, complete the rough draft and check it for accuracy (make sure she understands how to do this, too). By the fourth week, complete the final draft and make a clean copy to turn in. Make sure she stays on schedule by checking in with her in an interested manner rather than in a threatening way.
Consulting with your daughters' teachers or school guidance counselor about how to help her, and to help determine what are reasonable expectations for her, would likely be very productive for everyone. Helping her develop better study habits, encouraging her to love books, and changing your adversarial relationship into a closer, trusting and accepting relationship should be your focus at this time rather than focusing on unrealistic hopes of winning a merit scholarship several years down the road.
Good luck to you - and to your daughter.
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