Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Really you're comparing doctors to teachers? Seriously? When teachers have to have 10 years of education just to start out, then you can compare the two. Lives aren't in the hands of teachers. The wrong prescription, being off an 1/8 of an inch while in surgery and someone dies. How often does that happen with teachers?
Teachers have NOT had prestige in decades! What rock have you been under? Most teachers I know are sitting there counting the days until the school year is over and/or until their retirement day arrives.
If someone is looking for prestige, then the vast majority of jobs aren't for them. Some people think being a lawyer is prestigious. Others think they're nothing but ambulance chasers.
And many states teachers don't earn a "meager salary." I know people who start out making over $45K a year. You can live rather decently here on that.
When I graduated high school back in the 90's, our school librarian was making $86K a year. She didn't do a damn thing. She didn't even turn the lights on in the morning. The secretary did that! The students who volunteered in the library put ALL the books, magazines, microfiche, etc back in their homes. She literally sat her but in a chair all day long. The secretary checked students out as did the student volunteers. Very RARELY did lazy butt do it. So why on earth was she paid $86k a year from taxpayers? There were plenty of teachers in my high school whom were as pathetic and lazy.
And athletics is NOT the biggest problem in schools. When I played sports, I HAD to maintain a specific GPA otherwise I was off the team! When soccer season was over, I didn't do squat because I didn't need to and somehow I still earned A's and B's even without turning in term papers and other assignments. Remember those slacker teachers I mentioned? yeah they hated grading homework more than we hated doing it!
How do you know she did nothing? Media specialists have MLS degrees, more technology knowledge than you'd ever think and are there to help the students research and show them the tools. Something tells me you were a lazy student who couldn't be bothered doing the work assigned so you not only didn't use the services available, you now blame everyone else because you couldn't be lazy in college and get decent grades. I'm also guessing you didn't take the hardest core classes.
In defense of librarians: in most states, school librarians are required to have a professional degree from an accredited graduate library school - either the MLS or MALS or MIS. Few school or public librarians who are not public library directors are paid anything close to the $86,000 cited - $45-50,000 is more like it.
Much professional work goes on behind the scenes. Librarians order books and other materials from reviews in professional journals, after checking with the teachers and administrators about specific classroom needs. All items on the shelf are ordered following positive professional reviews or recommendations from teachers or others who are familiar with the material. Every school (and public) library has an extensive materials collection policy, and all purchases must adhere to this policy.
It takes considerable time to keep up with these reviews, along with the articles in these same journals. Once the materials arrive, they must be processed before they hit the shelf. Many school systems have centralized processing - cataloging, marking books, adding pockets and plastic jackets, etc. - but each individual school librarian keeps track of what's been ordered and must handle each item individually to make sure it is correctly cataloged and processed before it is checked off the order list and added to the collection. Similarly, collections must be weeded of damaged, worn out, or outdated materials. Some withdrawn items must be replaced, and records are kept of these orders as well as of materials which are new to the library.
While doing all this, the librarian must remain cognizant of the materials budget, and not over or underspend, as it's uncommon for funds left at the end of the year to be carried over.
Most school librarians create booklists on various relevant topics for their teachers and students. They stay in close touch with teachers to help teachers avoid assigning students to do the impossible (few libraries have 60+ copies of the same book, or material for 60+ kids doing the same esoteric assignment: "Compare life on an Israeli kibbutz to life on a Brazilian sugar plantation" was a favorite clueless assignment encountered by a librarian close to me), assist teachers in finding materials to supplement textbooks to enhance the curriculum, answer (realistic) reference questions from both teachers and students, and assist students in finding materials to help with assignments.
National Library Week, International Children's Book Day, and Children's Book Week are celebrated in libraries annually, with special displays, programs, perhaps visiting authors and illustrators, all of which must be planned by the librarian. Teachers must be informed of the approach of these special times, so they can arrange their own teaching schedules appropriately so their students can participate.
School librarians are required to participate in continuing education and professional development. They are strongly encouraged to belong to their state library association and school library association, and to attend conferences, and membership in the nation-wide American Library Association is also considered very positively. Coordinating with local public children's librarians is also encouraged, especially in planning summer reading activities sponsored by both the public library and in creating summer reading lists -often required reading- by the schools.
Effective school librarians recommend good books for recreational reading and book reports, give book talks to classes visiting the library, often tell stories in both the library and the classrooms, and may offer additional programming such as story-based dramatic groups, offer craft sessions based on literature, create displays related to topics being studied, create holiday displays and programs, and meet with students and administrators to discuss how to better serve the students and how to work together more productively.
They also read extensively and continually, keeping up with new books and other materials and revisiting older materials, so that they can continue to effectively assist their young student and teacher patrons. Most librarians take stacks of books home with them after work each day, to be read at home when more time may be available.
In addition, from time to time most librarians find themselves writing responses to (usually parental)efforts to censor the collection and explain and usually defend the reasons for the materials' presence. Such books must be read in their entirety by the librarian, and old reviews must be found. Any awards given to the books must be documented, and any statements by the authors about the books must be found and cited. The school principal must be notified of all such objections, and made aware of why the materials are in the collection.
Then courteous letters explaining the library's decision about such books (and how and why such books were originally chosen) must be sent to the objector, with an offer to meet with the objector to discuss it further and perhaps to recommend other books or materials on the same topic which might be more acceptable. Such letters and follow-up meetings must stress that the library does not recommend every book for every young reader, and that the library does attempt to offer guidance, but cannot be held responsible for every borrower's individual choices. The principal must be kept aware of each step of this process, and copies of any letters sent or received need to go to him or her.
Trusted school librarians often serve as unofficial guidance counselors, as young readers turn to them not only for reading recommendation but for input with personal problems. A wise librarian would listen sympathetically, then suggest a visit with the guidance counselor and perhaps recommend a helpful book on the topic - fiction can work just as well, if not better, than non-fiction in such situations.
Librarians do much more than check books in and out, shelve books, and turn on the lights. I would question the judgment and managerial skills of a school librarian who routinely did these things, given the presence of student or other assistants. It is far more appropriate to delegate these simple tasks to student assistants, to free the librarian for behind-the-scenes but essential professional activities.
No doubt there are some school librarians who slack off on the job - but they are the minority, and in good schools, they don't last long. Parents, teachers, students and administrators who expect better service see to that.
So you're a librarian. Good for you. I don't care if a person 157 Master's degrees and 39 PhD's. It's a piece of paper! I can make you one in my art studio.....would look just like the ones Harvard hands out and even has Harvard spelled correctly. And a Master's in Library Science is nothing like an MBA or Master's in Accounting. Let's be honest.
When you may think ALL librarians do the things you list, this is NOT the case. The secretary did the vast majority of the librarians job. My mother worked with the librarian secretary and saw her doing all the things I said she did. She was appalled that the librarian was paid $86K a year plus benefits plus a pension plus tenure. Nice job if you can get it.
Our library purchased fewer than 20 new books every year. Sorry, but that does not take much time to research.
Booklists? Oh yes we had them in elementary school. That librarian was wonderful. She was VERY engaged with the students. I really enjoyed working in her library. She actually did things with the student volunteers and gave us suggestions on what to read knowing our interests.
The high school librarian didn't make any booklists.....not for the 6 years I was there. My high school was 7-12 grade....before you think I flunk twice. The booklists we were given (and there were very few of them) were made by the teachers themselves. How do I know? My mother typed them up!
Sorry, but not all school libraries celebrate those weeks you mentioned. Ours did not. Again, lazy butt would have needed to get off her chair. And the poor secretary had plenty of other things to do. She's the one who ordered items through the interlibrary loan program. The librarian did not. No authors or illustrators visited my school in the 6 years I was there.
Maybe in your world the librarian was an unofficial guidance counselor. It's NOT that way in many places! I wouldn't have told lazy butt if I had a cold or my grandmother died. She would not have given a hoot.
Plenty of lazy butt's exist on the taxpayers' dime. They come in many forms with a variety of titles. In the end, they're all state workers. And they have a wonderful reputation in my state. That last statement is said with an amazing amount of sarcasm.
Who taught the doctor? He was home-schooled from K - 12?
Some doctors are home schooled. Some attend public school. Some attend private schools. Many have drive to work their rear ends off so even when they get a crappy teacher, they are determined to make the best out of it. Not all students have that drive or have a home where things like this are pushed.
Then the doctor went to college and medical school. High school and elementary school teachers don't teach in these places.
And comparing teachers to doctors is just asinine. When one needs a lung transplant, they don't call up their 9th grade English teach for help.
How do you know she did nothing? Media specialists have MLS degrees, more technology knowledge than you'd ever think and are there to help the students research and show them the tools. Something tells me you were a lazy student who couldn't be bothered doing the work assigned so you not only didn't use the services available, you now blame everyone else because you couldn't be lazy in college and get decent grades. I'm also guessing you didn't take the hardest core classes.
I worked in the library 3 days a week. My mother was a secretary for the school and her office was in the library. Did you think magic fairies told me this info?
What technology knowledge? Back in the 90's computers weren't all over the place. Microfiche and microfilm were our fancy technology.
I wasn't lazy. I just hated the school I had to attend. Hate to burst your bubble. I was accepted in several colleges including my top choice. I attended and graduated with honors. If you consider an accounting program and an honors program a piece of cake, then you're odd. I have since earned two other degrees. Considering starting another one in January. Nice try though!
There is some sort of theory/concept, I forget what it's called, where incompetent people are promoted so that they don't ruin things in the field. For example, someone is a bad teacher, so they get "promoted" to admin so they can't directly make the classrooms worse.
Of course, it's pretty flawed logic, but that doesn't stop it from happening.
edit: ah yes, someone mentioned it already! This is it!
No, that's not what the Peter principle says. The Peter principle says that people are evaluated on the basis of their current job, not the job they are a candidate for. So the good school administrators will be promoted to some higher job at the school board or elsewhere, while the lousy ones will stay. Eventually, if you're good at your job, you get promoted to another job you might not be so good at.
It's really very simple actually. Since most universities are very liberal and statistics have shown those with a more conservative view of the world tend not to be the majority in colleges, choosing instead to go to work early and be more family oriented with a tendency to mind their own business and not have an interest in pushing their agendas. So naturally, we are inundated with radicalized liberal minded people who inhabit every nook and cranny of our society....
So you're a librarian. Good for you. I don't care if a person 157 Master's degrees and 39 PhD's. It's a piece of paper! I can make you one in my art studio.....would look just like the ones Harvard hands out and even has Harvard spelled correctly. And a Master's in Library Science is nothing like an MBA or Master's in Accounting. Let's be honest.
When you may think ALL librarians do the things you list, this is NOT the case. The secretary did the vast majority of the librarians job. My mother worked with the librarian secretary and saw her doing all the things I said she did. She was appalled that the librarian was paid $86K a year plus benefits plus a pension plus tenure. Nice job if you can get it.
Our library purchased fewer than 20 new books every year. Sorry, but that does not take much time to research.
Booklists? Oh yes we had them in elementary school. That librarian was wonderful. She was VERY engaged with the students. I really enjoyed working in her library. She actually did things with the student volunteers and gave us suggestions on what to read knowing our interests.
The high school librarian didn't make any booklists.....not for the 6 years I was there. My high school was 7-12 grade....before you think I flunk twice. The booklists we were given (and there were very few of them) were made by the teachers themselves. How do I know? My mother typed them up!
Sorry, but not all school libraries celebrate those weeks you mentioned. Ours did not. Again, lazy butt would have needed to get off her chair. And the poor secretary had plenty of other things to do. She's the one who ordered items through the interlibrary loan program. The librarian did not. No authors or illustrators visited my school in the 6 years I was there.
Maybe in your world the librarian was an unofficial guidance counselor. It's NOT that way in many places! I wouldn't have told lazy butt if I had a cold or my grandmother died. She would not have given a hoot.
Plenty of lazy butt's exist on the taxpayers' dime. They come in many forms with a variety of titles. In the end, they're all state workers. And they have a wonderful reputation in my state. That last statement is said with an amazing amount of sarcasm.
There are many lazy people that don't really earn their pay. That's not exclusive to schools and I'm getting a little tired of the school bashing. You had ONE lousy librarian and for some reason you think that's the norm?? All of the librarians I know (and yes I know quite a few) work their butts off.
Shall we get back to the subject of administrators? BTW, Librarians are NOT administrators. Not sure why you decided to bring up a post to bash one librarian. I had a few really bad math teachers so I guess they are all bad all over the US.
I worked in the library 3 days a week. My mother was a secretary for the school and her office was in the library. Did you think magic fairies told me this info?
What technology knowledge? Back in the 90's computers weren't all over the place. Microfiche and microfilm were our fancy technology.
I wasn't lazy. I just hated the school I had to attend. Hate to burst your bubble. I was accepted in several colleges including my top choice. I attended and graduated with honors. If you consider an accounting program and an honors program a piece of cake, then you're odd. I have since earned two other degrees. Considering starting another one in January. Nice try though!
Then what are you whining about? It sounds like you got a good education. Then again, I've seen your other posts and think you still have a left over inferiority complex about anyone that you perceive has more than you. Maybe your mom instilled that in you by letting her jealousy of the librarian's salary dominate her thoughts.
BTW, it might not have been today's technology, but the librarians of the 90s were still doing nice jobs and had more knowledge of resources, periodicals and other publications. I'm so sorry you and your mom were so insecure in your own situation that you let it blind your ability to see what someone else's job actually entails.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
