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Be careful on calling the teacher out on "lying". I've had this happen when the truth was the student was lying. In fact, I've had this happen multiple times. Sometimes I wonder why kids say the things they do.
You don't consider that dishonest? He absolutely should have done the same thing for every student he taught.
By not notifying all of his students about the error, he led them to believe that the wrong answer was correct. What happens when they proceed to the next course and try to use that misinformation?
No. It's not like he was going to re-collect the exams and take off points because they did it the way the answer key did. I did feel that the fact the exam was curved was unfair since many students got credit for the wrong answer here (I ended up with a B on the exam but would have had the only A if the wrong answer had been marked wrong.). Had I not ended up with an A in the class I would have argued for one on the grounds that he had given others points for a wrong answer on one test (there were only 3 or 4 all term) and that was significant.
In this case, he'd been using the same answer key for many years. He would have had to have gone back to former students to correct this. I think it would be up to the professor to decide if it was something that needed correcting. I never expected him to explain to the class that the answer key was wrong and had been for years. My classmates were no worse off than his students from previous years or the students of any other teacher using that answer key. I would expect him to correct it in the future. However, I'm not privy to whether or not he did. I did find it interesting that over and over I found these mistakes when years of students hadn't. Once I actually got called into the professors office to explain my answer because I was the only student in several years to actually get the answer in the answer key. If you did the problem the way the book taught it, you got the wrong answer. It turned out there was an error in the book's method. I never memorized formulas choosing to derive them using calculus when needed. As a result, my formula did not have the error the book's did. The professor thought I'd cheated because I had the answer in the answer key. The answer key was right. I showed the professor the error in the formula. I don't recall him ever telling the class. The test was already given and other versions of the text book might not have had that mistake. It was just a typo.
I accept that humans make mistakes and that includes my professors. It's enough that they give credit where credit is due. I don't expect them to embarrass themselves in front of the class for making a mistake. Would you want to do that? Now if a teacher was repeatedly teaching things that were wrong THAT I would be concerned with. I would expect them to correct it in the future and in private if reviewing the problem with a student but publically embarrassing them for making a mistake is a bit much over one thing given we forget 95% of what we learn over time. As I said, I can't even tell you what the problem was anymore on that test. I don't even remember what the formula was for that I corrected in the chemistry book. Sometimes answer keys are wrong. No one is perfect. What's important is that they're right 99% of the time. Unless it's a major point that will impact later classes, I wouldn't expect a teacher to correct the 1%. That said, I usually do correct errors but I have been known to just add a point to everyone's test score rather than deal with an error on an answer key. Once the test is done, sometimes the only thing to do is just fix the grading issue.
I just don't think this is a big deal. I guarantee that every teacher teaches something wrong and thinks they're right. Whether they go before the class and admit that shortcoming usually doesn't make a difference given they probably taught it wrong to several years of students before learning they were wrong. I know that when I got to college I found out that several things my chemistry teacher taught me were wrong. He probably didn't know it and kept on teaching it. What's the difference if he knows it this year and chooses not to embarrass himself or doesn't know it and teaches it wrong?
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-20-2014 at 07:57 PM..
No. It's not like he was going to re-collect the exams and take off points because they did it the way the answer key did. I did feel that the fact the exam was curved was unfair since many students got credit for the wrong answer here (I ended up with a B on the exam but would have had the only A if the wrong answer had been marked wrong.). Had I not ended up with an A in the class I would have argued for one on the grounds that he had given others points for a wrong answer on one test (there were only 3 or 4 all term) and that was significant.
In this case, he'd been using the same answer key for many years. He would have had to have gone back to former students to correct this. I think it would be up to the professor to decide if it was something that needed correcting. I never expected him to explain to the class that the answer key was wrong and had been for years. My classmates were no worse off than his students from previous years or the students of any other teacher using that answer key. I would expect him to correct it in the future. However, I'm not privy to whether or not he did. I did find it interesting that over and over I found these mistakes when years of students hadn't. Once I actually got called into the professors office to explain my answer because I was the only student in several years to actually get the answer in the answer key. If you did the problem the way the book taught it, you got the wrong answer. It turned out there was an error in the book's method. I never memorized formulas choosing to derive them using calculus when needed. As a result, my formula did not have the error the book's did. The professor thought I'd cheated because I had the answer in the answer key. The answer key was right. I showed the professor the error in the formula. I don't recall him ever telling the class. The test was already given and other versions of the text book might not have had that mistake. It was just a typo.
I accept that humans make mistakes and that includes my professors. It's enough that they give credit where credit is due. I don't expect them to embarrass themselves in front of the class for making a mistake. Would you want to do that? Now if a teacher was repeatedly teaching things that were wrong THAT I would be concerned with. I would expect them to correct it in the future and in private if reviewing the problem with a student but publically embarrassing them for making a mistake is a bit much over one thing given we forget 95% of what we learn over time. As I said, I can't even tell you what the problem was anymore on that test. I don't even remember what the formula was for that I corrected in the chemistry book. Sometimes answer keys are wrong. No one is perfect. What's important is that they're right 99% of the time. Unless it's a major point that will impact later classes, I wouldn't expect a teacher to correct the 1%. That said, I usually do correct errors but I have been known to just add a point to everyone's test score rather than deal with an error on an answer key. Once the test is done, sometimes the only thing to do is just fix the grading issue.
I still have to disagree. Once the error is discovered, everyone in the class affected by the error deserves to have the error explained and all affected grades need to be adjusted. I do not mean going back years and years, when final course grades have already been recorded and people have graduated. But for the classes affected by the mistake before final grades are determined, every single person deserves to have his grade corrected. To me, the best thing to do would be to drop the question with the error and either not count it in the grade or give the class a day or two to review and then answer a replacement question.
The bigger issue is that for the professor not to address the issue in class means there are people who thought they got the answer right when they did not. What does the teacher do now on the final exam? Just not test on that material at all? Send the students to the next course with misinformation? If the question was worth 25 points on an exam (out of 100, I presume), that sounds like a significant concept to me. The professor needs to take responsibility for the situation and fix it. If I were a college professor, I personally would feel responsible for making sure that my exams were not screwed up.
Personally, I still think teachers need to be accountable for mastery of their subject areas. A middle school teacher, as in the OP, assuredly has taken math past the middle school level. A typo in an answer key I can understand. Not understanding a concept is not acceptable. It appears the teacher in the OP does not understand the concept.
My older kid was in a class with a math teacher. She's been teaching for quite a long time. One time I checked my kid homework and notice that the teacher was purely wrong. I explained to my kid that the solution she gave was wrong and explain why this is the correct answer and told her that her teacher will grade you right. Well, the next day, my kid told me she didn't get the "correct" answer because of me. I sent an email to the teacher explaining why she was wrong. Days later, the teacher replied back saying I am correct and she and the class discussed the correct one. When I asked my kid, she said the teacher said nothing about it and they never went back to the correct one.
So basically, this supposedly experienced math teacher does not know her subject and lies about her discussing with the class. I debated whether to meet with the principal but decided against it. My younger kid will come to the same grade with my older one soon and I want my younger one to avoid her class. how do I go about doing it?
BTW, how could a teacher who has been teaching a subject for years with wrong solution and no one notice it? Don't parent spend sometimes with the kid?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler
Be careful on calling the teacher out on "lying". I've had this happen when the truth was the student was lying. In fact, I've had this happen multiple times. Sometimes I wonder why kids say the things they do.
(snip).
I have also had children who lied to their parents about what went on during class as well as students who misunderstood a situation or misheard something or were goofing off and missed an announcement or part of the lesson. Just like teachers are not robots who are perfect 100% of the time neither are children perfect 100% of the time.
Another possibility is that the teacher did mention the error and briefly discussed it with the class and the student "missed it". The parent and child may have expected a 10 minute discussion and while the teacher did bring it up with the class it may have been a 30 second or minute or two discussion and the OP's child was daydreaming or sharpening their pencil at the time or distracted by something else going on in the classroom. The teacher may have said "Class, I am very sorry but I made an error on problem number 12 onTuesday's assignment. This is the correct way to do that problem (teacher shows correct solution). Are there any questions? ( wait time) Since there are no questions let's move on to today's lesson." A middle school student who was momentarily distracted could easily miss the teacher's apology and explanation to the class and tell their parent that the teacher said nothing at all about it.
Another thing to consider is that in the new Common Core math curriculum there are now different ways to find the answers to the very same math problems. And, in some cases there are now different solutions/answers to the same math problems. So, if the OP learned math even a few years ago the process or the solution, for some math problems, may be completely different (I know that seems surprising but it is true).
Last edited by germaine2626; 09-20-2014 at 11:54 PM..
Not understanding a concept is not acceptable. It appears the teacher in the OP does not understand the concept.
I must be missing something. Where is the evidence that the teacher did not understand the concept?
I see that the teacher made the mistake, acknowledged that the OP was correct, and either did or didn't discuss it with the class. I don't see evidence that the teacher didn't understand the concept. Can you help me out?
I still have to disagree. Once the error is discovered, everyone in the class affected by the error deserves to have the error explained and all affected grades need to be adjusted. I do not mean going back years and years, when final course grades have already been recorded and people have graduated. But for the classes affected by the mistake before final grades are determined, every single person deserves to have his grade corrected. To me, the best thing to do would be to drop the question with the error and either not count it in the grade or give the class a day or two to review and then answer a replacement question.
The bigger issue is that for the professor not to address the issue in class means there are people who thought they got the answer right when they did not. What does the teacher do now on the final exam? Just not test on that material at all? Send the students to the next course with misinformation? If the question was worth 25 points on an exam (out of 100, I presume), that sounds like a significant concept to me. The professor needs to take responsibility for the situation and fix it. If I were a college professor, I personally would feel responsible for making sure that my exams were not screwed up.
Personally, I still think teachers need to be accountable for mastery of their subject areas. A middle school teacher, as in the OP, assuredly has taken math past the middle school level. A typo in an answer key I can understand. Not understanding a concept is not acceptable. It appears the teacher in the OP does not understand the concept.
How does a professor justify taking 25 points away from students this year for following what he taught or the book taught whichever the case may be when he gave those 25 points in previous years? He can't. NEXT year when he teaches it correctly or points out the mistake in the book or changes the question on the exam he can. He cannot do that this year. It's not fair to the students taking the exam with the faulty information.
If that type of question is on the final, the material does need to be retaught. If it's not, I'd leave this one up to the professor. I know my physical chemistry professor never even mentioned to the class that the answer key had been wrong. I never mentioned it either other than to friends who knew I argued my point. He had given credit for that answer in the past and was going to have an issue not giving credit now. I would expect that the question would be replaced on the exams in the future. That's what I'd do if I were a professor. I'd give a similar problem but only count the right answer so no one could come back with their older brother's test paper and claim he'd given credit in the past for that exact answer.
Come to think of it, my chemistry teacher never mentioned the error in the book's formula either. My math teachers usually would show the class the correct way or correct the keys. I was known for having a habit of correcting books. Funny but in math it was usually the book that was wrong and the teacher was following the book. In science, it was the teacher as often as it was the book.
I'm still very curious as to what it was this teacher got wrong. Some mistakes are more basic than others and indicative of a lack of understanding on the part of the teacher. Some are finer points that are easily missed. Or perhaps it turned out the parent was really wrong. I did have one instance where I thought I'd been proven wrong but after thinking on it decided that I hadn't been. I just needed time to find the hole in their argument.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 09-21-2014 at 07:14 AM..
Is it only me who is REALLY curious what the math problem was?
Nope. Me too. OP, can you share?
Also, I'm surprised that professors wouldn't correct themselves in class. There is NOTHING wrong with showing that you are human and make mistakes; I have certainly corrected myself more than once in 15+ years of college teaching.
I still remember a math class in high school in which I got a question wrong on a test when I KNEW my answer was correct. I tried to say something to the teacher when we were going over the test in class, but she refused to listen (I'd also tried to talk to her individually so I can understand her being annoyed at me for questioning her again, but I was just so sure I was right!). The next day, the teacher apologized to me AND the entire class -- she said she'd talked with her husband (a fellow teacher) the night before and he had said "You told them WHAT?" Of course I felt pretty good about having the right answer, but I also thought it was GREAT that the teacher told us she'd made a mistake. She was human!!!
I have also had children who lied to their parents about what went on during class as well as students who misunderstood a situation or misheard something or were goofing off and missed an announcement or part of the lesson. Just like teachers are not robots who are perfect 100% of the time neither are children perfect 100% of the time.
Another possibility is that the teacher did mention the error and briefly discussed it with the class and the student "missed it". The parent and child may have expected a 10 minute discussion and while the teacher did bring it up with the class it may have been a 30 second or minute or two discussion and the OP's child was daydreaming or sharpening their pencil at the time or distracted by something else going on in the classroom. The teacher may have said "Class, I am very sorry but I made an error on problem number 12 onTuesday's assignment. This is the correct way to do that problem (teacher shows correct solution). Are there any questions? ( wait time) Since there are no questions let's move on to today's lesson." A middle school student who was momentarily distracted could easily miss the teacher's apology and explanation to the class and tell their parent that the teacher said nothing at all about it.
Another thing to consider is that in the new Common Core math curriculum there are now different ways to find the answers to the very same math problems. And, in some cases there are now different solutions/answers to the same math problems. So, if the OP learned math even a few years ago the process or the solution, for some math problems, may be completely different (I know that seems surprising but it is true).
This is quite possible. I know I don't dwell on my errors in class. I fix them and move on. I have accidentally misspoken in one class before. When 3 out of 4 classes get a question on a test and one bombs that question, I know the error is mine. I fix it and move on. I don't stand there and lecture for 10 minutes on a mistake.
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