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Usually I think many people mean a school with high average standardized test scores where they don't have to worry about the kids being safe. Also, folks will never admit it, but a lot of the time they mean a school that comes with "status" as well. Like you can say where your kids go to school and others will be impressed by their smarts and/or think you live in a nice neighborhood.
It's not like if there was a school with high outcomes and no incidents of violence sitting in the middle of the roughest section of the south side of Chicago these same people would gladly send thier kids there, even if a magic fairy came and plucked their kids out of bed and deposited them inside the school every day. LOL
They mean "which areas are middle class neighborhoods"?
Nothing too tricky about it, really. Most middle class parents want their kids to go to school with other middle class kids, the moms want to hang out with other middle class moms, etc.
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Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
I think they are asking if the current students are "different" from their children.
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Originally Posted by va_bank
It means they are looking for a upper middle class or wealthy area with low crime and demographic breakdown they'd be willing to live with. I think any more would be over explaining it.
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Originally Posted by va_bank
It means they are looking for a upper middle class or wealthy area with low crime and demographic breakdown they'd be willing to live with. I think any more would be over explaining it.
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Originally Posted by demonta4
Majority white schools in wealthy areas, duh. But, seriously I hate it when people ask that, it doesn't matter what school your kid goes to. If you actually watch who your child hangs out with, and stay involved with the school the child will do good.
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Originally Posted by strawflower
People who request "good" schools are usually requesting schools that draw from educated, wealthy, and (usually) white areas.
Generally, there is little difference in teaching quality, values, curriculum, etc. across public school districts. The difference is in the students and their families, and it's always kind of irked me when people ask where the good schools are. Especially if you live in suburbia, you're not looking for good schools, you're looking for schools where the families are like yours.
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Originally Posted by Tinawina
Usually I think many people mean a school with high average standardized test scores where they don't have to worry about the kids being safe. Also, folks will never admit it, but a lot of the time they mean a school that comes with "status" as well. Like you can say where your kids go to school and others will be impressed by their smarts and/or think you live in a nice neighborhood.
It's not like if there was a school with high outcomes and no incidents of violence sitting in the middle of the roughest section of the south side of Chicago these same people would gladly send thier kids there, even if a magic fairy came and plucked their kids out of bed and deposited them inside the school every day. LOL
Good grief you guys! People moving to a new city with school age kids should be concerned about the schools they're going to be putting their kids into! Some of these comments are very judgmental. Going to a strange town is kind of scary. Finding a school is a step into some semblance of normalcy. Everyone is interested in good schools. It's probably the most frequently asked question on the city forums. (Well, the ones that get a lot of newcomers, anyway.) And really, you have to live somewhere! Why not make schools a criteria in finding a new home? Why assume all these people are racists, and "classists"? A friend gave me good advice one time when we were moving. She said, there are good districts and bad districts there, but you're not going to buy a house in a bad district. I've given that advice in some form many times on the Denver/Boulder forums.
Good grief you guys! People moving to a new city with school age kids should be concerned about the schools they're going to be putting their kids into!
Plus it seems like everyone answering is white... the best schools are the ones with a lot of Asian kids.
Good grief you guys! People moving to a new city with school age kids should be concerned about the schools they're going to be putting their kids into! Some of these comments are very judgmental. Going to a strange town is kind of scary. Finding a school is a step into some semblance of normalcy. Everyone is interested in good schools. It's probably the most frequently asked question on the city forums. (Well, the ones that get a lot of newcomers, anyway.) And really, you have to live somewhere! Why not make schools a criteria in finding a new home? Why assume all these people are racists, and "classists"? A friend gave me good advice one time when we were moving. She said, there are good districts and bad districts there, but you're not going to buy a house in a bad district. I've given that advice in some form many times on the Denver/Boulder forums.
I just don't like it when a kid from a rich area is better than me just because they went to a certain school. When I suggest schools I do them based on where they work, not where the reputation schools are. This is why many students in poorer areas feel bad about their school, even though their is no real difference between schools.
Good grief you guys! People moving to a new city with school age kids should be concerned about the schools they're going to be putting their kids into! Some of these comments are very judgmental. Going to a strange town is kind of scary. Finding a school is a step into some semblance of normalcy. Everyone is interested in good schools. It's probably the most frequently asked question on the city forums. (Well, the ones that get a lot of newcomers, anyway.) And really, you have to live somewhere! Why not make schools a criteria in finding a new home? Why assume all these people are racists, and "classists"? A friend gave me good advice one time when we were moving. She said, there are good districts and bad districts there, but you're not going to buy a house in a bad district. I've given that advice in some form many times on the Denver/Boulder forums.
LOL. I'm not being judgmental. I've asked this question myself almost very time we've moved. But I am being honest about what I've observed over the years, being in a profession where many of my colleagues move frequently.
Good schools often boils down to "is ths school part of a track that end with my kid in a prestigious college?", "are the test scores high?", "will my kid be robbed or shot at?" and "does it have a good reputation?" ranks up there with the rest.
I've seen parents poo poo schools with good outcomes because "only the hippies send thier kids there" or "everyone knows school Y is much better" or some such nonsense. They care what other people think of the choice, more than they care about school's fit for the kids. Not everyone, but it happens a lot IMO.
I had a rant about how the idea of 'good schools' is very classist, but I'm glad to see many of you agree with me and have already posted said rants.
I've never gone to a really underprivileged school, but the '10/10' school I went to for the last two years of high school didn't lead to any meaningful developments in my life that I couldn't find at my prior '2/10' school. I felt really insulted listening to my peers at my second school talking down on 'ghetto' schools (they actually just happened to be majority Hispanic, hence why 'good schools' is a term frequently associated with racism. I go to those areas no problem).
While I'm glad I didn't go to an 'underprivileged school', I'm also glad I didn't spend my entire adolescence in 'the best'. It exposes you to more and allows more independence, I think. Even if I did go to a 'bad school', there's a good chance I would have been able to make the best of it, based on people I know who did attend 'bad schools'. I'm not downplaying the issues in those schools but talking down on them and desperately avoiding them is far from a good solution to their problems, and much of it depends on the student.
These were all public schools too. I'm so glad I never had to go to private school, to be honest.
I just don't like it when a kid from a rich area is better than me just because they went to a certain school. When I suggest schools I do them based on where they work, not where the reputation schools are. This is why many students in poorer areas feel bad about their school, even though their is no real difference between schools.
What does that have to do with my post? And unless someone says they're looking for a school in an affluent area, how do you know that's what they're looing for?
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Originally Posted by Tinawina
LOL. I'm not being judgmental. I've asked this question myself almost very time we've moved. But I am being honest about what I've observed over the years, being in a profession where many of my colleagues move frequently.
Good schools often boils down to "is ths school part of a track that end with my kid in a prestigious college?", "are the test scores high?", "will my kid be robbed or shot at?" and "does it have a good reputation?" ranks up there with the rest.
I've seen parents poo poo schools with good outcomes because "only the hippies send thier kids there" or "everyone knows school Y is much better" or some such nonsense. They care what other people think of the choice, more than they care about school's fit for the kids. Not everyone, but it happens a lot IMO.
Well, yeah, I know a lot of people are looking for schools like that. You can't change their minds, either. I think it helps to ask them what they mean by "good schools". Different people do have different criteria. I think it helps to reassure people that there are many schools in an area, no one "best" one and that they aren't likely to buy a house in a district where their kids will be robbed or shot at. People who want to live in "the city" will likely be more concerned about the schools in their district. There are some wide variations in most cities; that is the truth.
I see people often ask this question when they're asking about what neighborhood to move to. "I'm moving to this new city can you tell me which areas have good schools?"
The obvious answer is to look at test scores, college placement, and graduation rates. Objectively measurable standards that are simple to compare but don't really tell the whole story. Affluent neighborhoods tend to come out on top in all three. Of course those school districts have more resources and more support for extracurricular activities. But I would argue that teachers in poorer districts are actually better and more dedicated than teachers of spoiled brats.
Wealthy families also tend to place more importance on education. For poorer families, just getting into college would be a huge deal, but for wealthy parents, it's an embarrassment if they don't get into a good school or end up going to community college. Parents in affluent neighborhoods use their kids to compete with their neighbors and colleagues, a sort of keeping up with the joneses.
Few parents ask "what school is right for my kids?"
Affluent schools also have a much higher incidence of drug use and underage drinking. From what I've seen from "good schools", the high achieving students in the top 10% tend to go to prestigious colleges and many have successful careers. But a lot of the students end up worse off than average students in average schools. So many of the people I know who went to top high schools, who didn't "make it", ended up having serious drug problems and got diagnosed with mental health issues.
Many are also considering the problems in schools that can even effect higher income neighbors or districts. So now days its more than the education possible but the violence level sadly. But generally the poor the income level; the worse the violence in general. In end the top educators are attracted to same as all of us. Best work environment and pay. Its really no different thru education levels. That is why you see in many inner city people sending their kids to private schools and even more and more home schooling.
I guess I am one of those classists. I want "good" schools for my kids because I am hoping it will translate into a better education and better colleges. I am not generally classist in my life but for my kids and for the schools, yes. I want them to attend schools that have students whose families put a value on education. I moved to get my daughter out of a school with trash talking 5 year olds. Literally the 5 year olds in the cafeteria were talking about sex and they knew probably as much as most adults about it. They were talking about women's body parts and killing dogs. They were cussing like crazy. They were also extremely misbehaved and were up and down and passing notes to the kids at other tables. This is not a problem with the school, it is a problem with the exposures at home and the lack of discipline or parenting. the whole cafeteria was chaos.
Her teacher got "teacher of the year" for the whole county. Yet her skills began to decline after being there. I wondered if the teacher was having to spend more time keeping kids in line than she was teaching. I sent her there initially because I thought the affluence of the neighborhood wasn't important to me. But the problems I saw with kids in the school did matter to me, and then I realized that class did matter more than I thought.
And the only way a parent can really compare schools is by the rankings and test scores. Nobody can get to know each teacher and principal and understand a school culture in order to properly compare. These test scores are not great measures but at least it's something. The rest is all just subjective talk from parents based on their experiences and their kids or based on reputation. And if the affluent families are using tutoring and putting a lot more into helping their child do better, it might mean that those are the families that share my values and would have kids I would want my kid around.
One of the nicest schools I have seen is a D school that my littlest daughter attends for VPK. All the teachers and the principal seem great. More than once I have thought that maybe I should have put all the kids there. But the other families are a big part of this and the discipline problems are probably even worse here because it's an even less affluent area. The families are poorer. I have heard that the discipline problems are worse. And they score poorly too since they are rated a D school. It's only elementary school but the area around the school is generally known to have some drug problems. So we went with the school in the wealthiest area of the county and paid a lot to get into a house there. So far the school has seemed good and the kids are doing well and there aren't any incidents in the lunchroom.
So I admit to being a classist and if you think that's bad then go ahead and read me the riot act. I may deserve it. I would have gone with private schools but I didn't like any of them. It seems I am not only classist but picky as well.
PS hopefully we are not racists since the majority of people in our family are black.
I guess I am one of those classists. I want "good" schools for my kids because I am hoping it will translate into a better education and better colleges. I am not generally classist in my life but for my kids and for the schools, yes. I want them to attend schools that have students whose families put a value on education. I moved to get my daughter out of a school with trash talking 5 year olds. Literally the 5 year olds in the cafeteria were talking about sex and they knew probably as much as most adults about it. They were talking about women's body parts and killing dogs. They were cussing like crazy. They were also extremely misbehaved and were up and down and passing notes to the kids at other tables. This is not a problem with the school, it is a problem with the exposures at home and the lack of discipline or parenting. the whole cafeteria was chaos.
Her teacher got "teacher of the year" for the whole county. Yet her skills began to decline after being there. I wondered if the teacher was having to spend more time keeping kids in line than she was teaching. I sent her there initially because I thought the affluence of the neighborhood wasn't important to me. But the problems I saw with kids in the school did matter to me, and then I realized that class did matter more than I thought.
And the only way a parent can really compare schools is by the rankings and test scores. Nobody can get to know each teacher and principal and understand a school culture in order to properly compare. These test scores are not great measures but at least it's something. The rest is all just subjective talk from parents based on their experiences and their kids or based on reputation. And if the affluent families are using tutoring and putting a lot more into helping their child do better, it might mean that those are the families that share my values and would have kids I would want my kid around.
One of the nicest schools I have seen is a D school that my littlest daughter attends for VPK. All the teachers and the principal seem great. More than once I have thought that maybe I should have put all the kids there. But the other families are a big part of this and the discipline problems are probably even worse here because it's an even less affluent area. The families are poorer. I have heard that the discipline problems are worse. And they score poorly too since they are rated a D school. It's only elementary school but the area around the school is generally known to have some drug problems. So we went with the school in the wealthiest area of the county and paid a lot to get into a house there. So far the school has seemed good and the kids are doing well and there aren't any incidents in the lunchroom.
So I admit to being a classist and if you think that's bad then go ahead and read me the riot act. I may deserve it. I would have gone with private schools but I didn't like any of them. It seems I am not only classist but picky as well.
PS hopefully we are not racists since the majority of people in our family are black.
I didn't get any hint of racism out of your posts. As far as classism goes, I'm not necessarily trying to blame individual people, since it's so ingrained into our collective conscious. I don't know about everyone else but your story isn't the type of thing I'd look at say 'wow what a bad person'. Obviously you're just doing what you thought was best for your kids. It's when people actually look down on the people in those areas when it becomes a problem, especially since it often translates into crafting the stereotypical path for well-off students, which is just another part of what I am now calling 'exclusion culture'. Then this rubs off on the kids, who in turn are needlessly condescending to 'outsiders' and develop their own classist mindset.
I'm not getting that vibe from you. It does sound like you have extremely high standards for schools though.
It's kind of hard for me to talk about this topic in depth without derailing the entire thread so I'll probably just leave it at that. In short; I think it's okay to live in wealthy areas and for kids to go to 'good schools', but you/they should understand the implications of this and not pass judgement on others. I have not seen you do this. Personally, I am not satisfied with reaping the benefits of an exclusionary system without challenging norms that prevent equal access for others. That's why I have a problem with the people who will just look at a school and denounce as 'ghetto' and have a bad opinion of everyone in the area.
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