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Old 01-24-2008, 03:15 PM
 
Location: New Port Richey
118 posts, read 624,108 times
Reputation: 162

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When it went from "why aren't you obeying your teacher...if I get one more note that you are...then you will be getting...from me"

To "why aren't you helping my son when he needs that extra help? why are you giving my son C's but Johnny over here gets A's? "

I honestly think taking away the privledge of physical discipline and public (i.e. classmates) humility the student has alot to do with it as well
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Old 01-24-2008, 03:52 PM
 
28,896 posts, read 53,939,958 times
Reputation: 46662
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelaRed View Post
I honestly think taking away the privledge of physical discipline and public (i.e. classmates) humility the student has alot to do with it as well
Good point. It's all about the cult of the child, where parents spend thousands of dollars on entertaining their kids and act as glorified bus drivers to their million activities.

We live an affluent community, and you wouldn't believe how much stuff these kids have. iPods, Wiis, GameCubes, TVs, etc. etc. etc.

For example, in my son's sixth-grade class, most of the kids now have mobile phones. What? What possible need does an 11-year-old have for a mobile phone? You're either at school where you don't need it or home where you have a land line phone.

Yet, when kids make bad grades, do those things get taken away? Nope.
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Old 01-24-2008, 06:57 PM
 
211 posts, read 976,479 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelaRed View Post
When it went from "why aren't you obeying your teacher...if I get one more note that you are...then you will be getting...from me"

To "why aren't you helping my son when he needs that extra help? why are you giving my son C's but Johnny over here gets A's? "

I honestly think taking away the privledge of physical discipline and public (i.e. classmates) humility the student has alot to do with it as well
I have to agree with this point completely. There is something about "Shame." Today's generation really has no shame because they do not fear anything. If kids are even looked at wrong by a teacher, parents call and complain that their kid is being picked on. My kids don't act up because they *fear* me more than getting in trouble at school. I'm not their friend; I'm their parent.

Today, we baby our kids in the name of political correctness. It truly shows in the school systems.

Off topic a bit . . . in our local school district, kids can play on the gym equipment but cannot play tag (it is against school rules to call someone *it*), cannot have a ball, and they are not allowed to have a bat (for baseball) just in case someone gets hurt! Unreal!!!!
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Old 01-24-2008, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Fort Mill, SC
1,105 posts, read 4,558,033 times
Reputation: 632
I honestly don't think US Schools have gotten worse over the last 30-40 years. They were never great to begin with if you compare it to the countries that have the best.

In general I don't think it has anything to do with the federal government getting involved. For every school that has gotten worse there are schools that have gotten better. I know that my state who has notoriously been one of the worst states in the country for public education, has gotten better and better and the school district that my son goes to is ranked one of the best in the country. This school district has also historically been a poorer, working class area so if you just look at the demographics, it should be not be doing well. It has only been in recent years that there has been an influx of wealthier families and only because of the school district.

No money is not the answer to everything but at the same time when there are schools that literally have a $500 book budget, there is a huge problem. In my state, the schools that do well are schools that have an industry that helps support it, financially.

Someone needs to take a look at the public schools that do well and start some modeling. But people get so stubborn about looking to others for guidance, help, examples, whatever.
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Old 01-25-2008, 05:58 AM
 
211 posts, read 976,479 times
Reputation: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpg35223 View Post
Good point. It's all about the cult of the child, where parents spend thousands of dollars on entertaining their kids and act as glorified bus drivers to their million activities.

We live an affluent community, and you wouldn't believe how much stuff these kids have. iPods, Wiis, GameCubes, TVs, etc. etc. etc.

For example, in my son's sixth-grade class, most of the kids now have mobile phones. What? What possible need does an 11-year-old have for a mobile phone? You're either at school where you don't need it or home where you have a land line phone.

Yet, when kids make bad grades, do those things get taken away? Nope.

Your absolutely right! I'm one of the few parents that wouldn't allow her child to have a cell at 11. He's now 16 and working (so he pays for his own). My argument with him at age 11 was, "An 11-year old shouldn't be anywhere where there isn't an adult or access to a phone."

Taking things away . . . I see that too. They threaten, but never follow through. It's too hard.
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Old 01-26-2008, 08:18 PM
 
6,578 posts, read 25,374,853 times
Reputation: 3249
I went to school in the 70s and it wasn't so great although the schools were white upper middle class with the perception of being excellent. The classes were overcrowded because the neighborhood was new and there were young families in every single house. The teachers were mostly young and inexperienced. "Resource" kids were kept and taught in a janitor's closet due to lack of space. The male PE coaches were beyond cruel. There were just a couple of academic counselors for 900 in each grade level at the high school so very little college guidance (although almost everyone went to college). We looked nice at school though. Dresses, nice pants.

The extracurriculars (sports, cheerleading, band, drill team) were extraordinarily time consuming and to me it seemed was the number one reason we were even in this thing called High School. We drank lots and lots and lots of alcohol in high school. There was a smoking section out by the field house where students could smoke during the school day.

Not one of my teachers made a positive impact on me. A couple of them made a negative impact. Most were forgetable.

Now my son started kinder in 2000. Oh my. It's worse! The classes are smaller, but the kids are more out of control. The teachers are experienced, but they are frustrated, bitter and angry. Did we really spend this much time doing photo-ops? Assemblies for this, that and the other?? What total wastes of time.

There is high stakes testing for all so kids don't fall through the cracks, but now it's the only thing that is taught - how to take a test, how to manage your test taking time, how to bubble in correctly, how to stay on the right line, and then curriculum that is only strongly believed to be on this year's test based on careful analysis of what's been on the test in years past.

I switched my son to a private school and it's much much better. Not perfect, but better. Better than what I had and better than what he had in public.
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Old 02-01-2008, 05:46 AM
 
746 posts, read 838,739 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by questioner2 View Post
Everyone I talk about tells me how terrible the public schools are now a days. They tell me "in their day" our public education system was much better. The kids minded their teachers, people paid attention in class and the quality of instruction was much better.

If you are a baby boomer or older, do you think the school you went to "in your day" is better than what your kids have today?

If this is the case then there must of been a glory day in America's history when schools were great. In what era was our public education system in good shape?

Great question and good debate, but this is such a funny and easy question to answer on so many statistical levels.

For starts IMO there has never been a hey-day in public education. If anything children today are 30x smarter than children were in the 50's,60's,70's and to a smaller extent the 80's. Hell, todays kids academically would run circles and lap those same kids of the 50's and 60's three or four times academically.

Remember most kids in those days did not even graduate high school let alone in some parts of the country finish middle school. Today we have 80% of the children that start school graduate from at least high school. In the 50's and 60's it was less than half.

I think there's a big difference in what is being learned today versus the behavior of children today versus yester years. Attempting to compare academic achievement with behavior is not a legitimate argument to make in terms of "are schools worse now than in previous years."

I guess a better question would be to ask about behavior. Is it better now than in previous years? and like many of you have said the answer is a resounding and obvious no. Kids in the 50's, 60's, and some in the 70's (although 70's might be a strech lol) were probably better behaved than children are today.

However, are they smarter? Hell no, not by a long shot. If you put the kids from the 50's and 60's in a school system today the US government would be shutting the system down because it would not meet the "No child left behind standards."
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Old 02-01-2008, 06:32 AM
 
1,126 posts, read 2,683,622 times
Reputation: 572
I dunno what's wrong, but the lack of knowledge and general inculture of quite a good share of Americans is staggering for a western country
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Old 02-08-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Colorado
444 posts, read 1,208,691 times
Reputation: 286
Schools and moral values went downhill, when they stopped saying the pledge of alligence.
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Old 02-08-2008, 10:14 PM
 
Location: mississippi
80 posts, read 276,179 times
Reputation: 38
I would say around 1968. All pledges were about gone, I was bussed to another school, and much changed in 68. It seemed all the innocence was gone.
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