U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-16-2015, 10:15 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,827 posts, read 39,447,126 times
Reputation: 48637

Advertisements

Article from a couple of years back, noting that although there is a genetic component to intelligence, the genes thought to be linked to intelligence actually likely have no specific bearing on the IQ measure:

Intelligence is in the genes, but where? Most genes thought to be linked to intelligence probably have no bearing on IQ -- ScienceDaily
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-16-2015, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,896 posts, read 28,206,166 times
Reputation: 26044
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post
It seems like we agree -- for whatever reason, they are indeed less intelligent. Your explanation is the intake of words. Mine is, well, I really don't know why. But the end result is the end result, which complicates education. People often try to sidestep the question "Is there a difference?" by a convenient digression to "This is because of . . .."

Regarding socialization -- baloney.
That is not innate intelligence, it is opportunity and exposure. Even that out and you'll see improvements. You want to code it as race and ignore the inequity that determines IQ.

Kids who hear (are exposed to) more words turn into better readers. That has little to do with ability and a lot to do with how much their parents are able to be around to talk. I read plenty of studies in sociology where thepy tried iq tests on people from isolated societies and re-did the tests after some specialized study. There were huge leaps in IQ in a short period of time.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2015, 11:33 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,999 times
Reputation: 2498
Default Can you note some?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevelander17 View Post
I don't think that this discussion is just about race or just about socioeconomics, but I also don't think that either can be completely written off or ignored as the basis for certain behaviors or outcomes.
I've taught middle-class whites and middle-class blacks in large enough numbers to draw what I believe to be legitimate conclusions on real differences in behaviors and norms.

Care to list some of the differences in behaviors and norms?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2015, 11:43 PM
 
33,046 posts, read 20,759,593 times
Reputation: 8928
I attended a Catholic parochial school which was well integrated. The school had and enforced standards of behavior.

Maybe that's how non-public schools can successfully integrate while public schools fail.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-16-2015, 11:58 PM
 
Location: 2 blocks from bay in L.I, NY
1,597 posts, read 1,281,999 times
Reputation: 2498
Default Not to smart OR very insecure and envious

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamish Forbes View Post

The simple fact is that the mean values of the distributions of Black and White intelligence are separated by about one full standard deviation. It's simply a fact. To remedy the situation by first understanding what is actually going on.
Apparently Whites are not as intelligent over Blacks as they think. I say that because for any group of people who have always had access to education, being allowed and taught to read and write, to pursue various professions and careers to COMPARE their "INTELLIGENCE" to a people who were denied those same opportunities over the past 400 year hundred years, is idiocy. Your intelligence is not worth much.

Why not compare apples with apples? Compare your intelligence with people who have had the same opportunities you were given or allowed. Don't compare your intelligence to people who were enslaved, sold at will, separated from children and spouses, raped, terrorized with all forms of sadist and hateful methods, could be killed or sold for learning to read and write, homes and businesses burned down due to jealous from the White mob mentality, lynched for any reason or no reason at all, and denied by Whites all of those things collectively for the past 400 years that White people were allowed.

Yet, Whites (some) have the nerve to turn around and say "Black and White intelligence are separated by a full standard deviation". So, it's only a full standard deviation instead of a full 7 deviations? Black people are even smarter than the results are showing in that case. To be tortured and terrorized by White insecurity (and false superiority complex) over hundreds of years was enough to subconsciously turn most Blacks people away from embracing a high intellect given the danger of living near a much larger population of hostile and insecure population.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2015, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,841 posts, read 6,934,900 times
Reputation: 13779
Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardA View Post
I get really annoyed by this line of thinking. No one dares question that some kids are more athletically inclined than others but supposedly we're all of the same intellectual ability. Just doesn't reflect reality and continuing this blank state nonsense is harming too many kids.

Can't find the article now but I recently read a report about a principal in Minnesota, I think, that stealthily implemented tracking at her struggling school. The test scores, reading etc. shot up dramatically.
I get annoyed by the line of thinking that denies decades of research that consistently shows that parents' socio-economic standing is the major determinant of educational success. Kids who have parents who graduated from college and make well above the national median household income tend to do better academically than kids who have parents who did not graduate from high school and who make well below the national median household income. Researchers have been seeing this since at least the 1970s. Look it up anywhere you like.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2015, 01:49 PM
 
2,893 posts, read 3,405,576 times
Reputation: 4072
Those who don't understand statistics very well often mistake "is determined by" for "is correlated with," as above.

Parents with high IQs make more money than parents with low IQs, generally (of course, there are individual exceptions). These high-IQ parents have smart kids, as intelligence is substantially (although not entirely) inherited.

Thus, high-SES parents have high-IQ kids, generally.

Do you know any couples who both graduated from Harvard Medical or Yale Law? They generally have extraordinarily bright kids, more so than, say, lottery winners or manual laborers. It's OK to shake your fist at God about this, but that's how things work, and there's nothing in our contract that says life is going to be fair.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2015, 07:19 PM
 
894 posts, read 799,773 times
Reputation: 2627
Blaming other people for your problems is a one-way ticket to failure. If you raise children to see themselves as perpetual victims, then that's what they'll become. White people are barely the majority of the population anymore, so the argument that whites continue to hold black people down is really becoming moot.

The bottom line is education starts at home. It doesn't matter what race you are, if your parents don't give a rat's behind about you becoming educated you'll fall through the cracks. You can ship all the poor kids out to schools in the suburbs and it still won't make a difference.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-17-2015, 10:28 PM
 
3,352 posts, read 2,147,115 times
Reputation: 2232
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoFigureMeOut View Post
Blaming other people for your problems is a one-way ticket to failure. If you raise children to see themselves as perpetual victims, then that's what they'll become. White people are barely the majority of the population anymore, so the argument that whites continue to hold black people down is really becoming moot.

The bottom line is education starts at home. It doesn't matter what race you are, if your parents don't give a rat's behind about you becoming educated you'll fall through the cracks. You can ship all the poor kids out to schools in the suburbs and it still won't make a difference.
some kids will do good in suburbs but not all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2015, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,792,009 times
Reputation: 6259
Quote:
Originally Posted by freemkt View Post
I attended a Catholic parochial school which was well integrated. The school had and enforced standards of behavior.

Maybe that's how non-public schools can successfully integrate while public schools fail.
Agree but the Obama admin believes the little discipline that goes on in public schools today is racist. So many school districts have refrained from disciplining kids except in the most extreme cases. I suspect the learning environment will get worse at schools with many poor minorities.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top