U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-18-2015, 04:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
18,563 posts, read 15,779,496 times
Reputation: 6259

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I get annoyed by the line of thinking that denies decades of research that consistently shows that parents' socio-economic standing is the major determinant of educational success. Kids who have parents who graduated from college and make well above the national median household income tend to do better academically than kids who have parents who did not graduate from high school and who make well below the national median household income. Researchers have been seeing this since at least the 1970s. Look it up anywhere you like.
That's why identifying smart poor kids early and tracking them is the way to go instead of foolishly believing everyone has the same ability. I mean folks with multiple children will recognize each kid has different aptitude while living in the same environment, similar genes etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-18-2015, 04:57 AM
 
11,614 posts, read 19,729,031 times
Reputation: 12046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Klassyhk View Post
Apparently Whites are not as intelligent over Blacks as they think. I say that because for any group of people who have always had access to education, being allowed and taught to read and write, to pursue various professions and careers to COMPARE their "INTELLIGENCE" to a people who were denied those same opportunities over the past 400 year hundred years, is idiocy. Your intelligence is not worth much.

Why not compare apples with apples? Compare your intelligence with people who have had the same opportunities you were given or allowed. Don't compare your intelligence to people who were enslaved, sold at will, separated from children and spouses, raped, terrorized with all forms of sadist and hateful methods, could be killed or sold for learning to read and write, homes and businesses burned down due to jealous from the White mob mentality, lynched for any reason or no reason at all, and denied by Whites all of those things collectively for the past 400 years that White people were allowed.

Yet, Whites (some) have the nerve to turn around and say "Black and White intelligence are separated by a full standard deviation". So, it's only a full standard deviation instead of a full 7 deviations? Black people are even smarter than the results are showing in that case. To be tortured and terrorized by White insecurity (and false superiority complex) over hundreds of years was enough to subconsciously turn most Blacks people away from embracing a high intellect given the danger of living near a much larger population of hostile and insecure population.
Regardless of the reason the difference is there. We can argue about why the difference came about and how to close the gap but the fact remains that a child who comes to school with a low IQ has a different capacity to learn than a child who comes to school with a higher IQ.

When it comes to schools people who are at a higher level should not be held back due to others who are at a lower level. In schools with substantial numbers of low ability students that is what will happen. As a result parents of higher ability students will move their kids to schools where there are larger numbers of higher ability students.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-18-2015, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Tennessee
33,949 posts, read 32,402,154 times
Reputation: 49901
I'm in favor of tracking. If you say that puts black kids in with the slow learners, that's racist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2015, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Oakland, CA
26,878 posts, read 28,170,320 times
Reputation: 26003
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I'm in favor of tracking. If you say that puts black kids in with the slow learners, that's racist.
You don't understand the problem. Tracking isn't a bad thing. The problem is when you are black, teachers assume you are a slow learner and put you in those classes until proven otherwise. Vs assuming you are a "regular" or fast learner until proven otherwise.

What also happens, is that institutional racims impacts how much agency and power "less advantaged" parents feel they have over their kid's education. The same school assumes tye parents do not care. In DC or New Orleans, the city is escaping me at the moment, there was a school choice enrollment day in a oorer community. It started in the morning, and parents lined up 2 hours ahead to get their kids in the program. The issue here is that the expectations were such that no one thought the parents would show up, in reality the parents were excited to be offered the opportunity.

We think it is fine tomstereotype and assume less advantaged parents do not care, instead of figuring out what the actual obstacles are. If you work in a service job, it is hard to get time off for parent teacher conferences. If you rely on slow and crappy transit, getting across town to the after school comferences might be difficult.

We need to take a broader look at challenges instead of broadly assuming and stereotyping.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2015, 03:11 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
72,787 posts, read 64,231,537 times
Reputation: 68604
Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre View Post
We don't "refuse"...it's no longer, in many cases, part of our teachable curriculum. As for electronic products, you can thank every school board and superintendent that thinks putting an iPad in a child's hands will make everything better.
What does that mean, "it's no longer a part of our teachable curriculum"? And who decided to throw it out?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2015, 04:23 PM
 
349 posts, read 413,966 times
Reputation: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by Linda_d View Post
I get annoyed by the line of thinking that denies decades of research that consistently shows that parents' socio-economic standing is the major determinant of educational success. Kids who have parents who graduated from college and make well above the national median household income tend to do better academically than kids who have parents who did not graduate from high school and who make well below the national median household income. Researchers have been seeing this since at least the 1970s. Look it up anywhere you like.
The statement above is basic common sense and few would disagree with it. But one has to take the question further and determine why kids from higher socio-economic backgrounds do better in school. The answer is high achieving individuals have specific genetic traits and cultural beliefs that helped them achieve success academically and in their careers. Those traits are passed on to their kids who also do well in life. A stable home life helps but it has less of an influence than personality traits and culture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2015, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Mid South Central TX
3,165 posts, read 7,213,417 times
Reputation: 2157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
What does that mean, "it's no longer a part of our teachable curriculum"? And who decided to throw it out?
Many things that USED to be part of our curriculum (grammar beyond basics, handwriting) are no longer part of our curriculum. TEACHERS did not decide to throw it out. We cringe when we see how students write (I mean physically AND grammatically). Up until recently, some schools could not even enforce spelling. Fortunately, THAT seems to be changing.

TEACHERS DON'T MAKE THE STANDARDS OR THE CURRICULUM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-21-2015, 05:25 PM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,089,579 times
Reputation: 6946
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuero View Post
The statement above is basic common sense and few would disagree with it. But one has to take the question further and determine why kids from higher socio-economic backgrounds do better in school. The answer is high achieving individuals have specific genetic traits and cultural beliefs that helped them achieve success academically and in their careers. Those traits are passed on to their kids who also do well in life. A stable home life helps but it has less of an influence than personality traits and culture.
I think you are making this up as you go along. It's much better to look at actual studies.

Poor kids who do everything right don’t do better than rich kids who do everything wrong - The Washington Post

Quote:
But even if they didn't, low-income kids would still have a hard time getting ahead. That's, in part, because they're targets for diploma mills that load them up with debt, but not a lot of prospects. And even if they do get a good degree, at least when it comes to black families, they're more likely to still live in impoverished neighborhoods that keep them disconnected from opportunities.
__________________
Please follow THESE rules.

Any Questions on how to use this site? See this.

Realtors, See This.

Moderator - Lehigh Valley, NEPA, Harrisburg, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Education and Colleges and Universities.

When I post in bold red, that is Moderator action and per the TOS can be discussed only via Direct Message.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-22-2015, 11:16 AM
 
15,299 posts, read 16,854,240 times
Reputation: 15020
Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC View Post
I'm in favor of tracking. If you say that puts black kids in with the slow learners, that's racist.
The problem is that often the smart black kids have problems getting into the higher tracks. Sometimes, it is peer pressure that keeps them out, but sometimes it is teacher assumptions and sometimes it is parental inability to get the child placed appropriately.

Anecdote: My daughter had a very good friend who went to high school with her. She was a good student and wanted to take honors and AP English classes, but could not get the teachers to recommend her. My daughter and I went up the chain to the councilor to get her placed and she did extremely well. Unfortunately, her parents then moved to another suburb for her senior year and they needed her to go with them instead of staying with us because she was baby-sitter in chief for her two little brothers. She completed high school at a school that did not give her more AP classes. She is doing ok now as an adult - she is married with 3 children and her husband has a decent job, but she never got into the college she wanted to go to and never had the job she wanted for herself.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top