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It is a small, cliquey school. Seems to be major favoritism at work here.
There is some of your problem there.......
So...in PE- the teacher allows the students to choose teams (generally the same few kids chosen as captains).
Not uncommon. Maybe experience has taught that these few have made the best captains. Not that switching it up wouldn't be a bad thing.
According to my daughter she is always picked last- and the captain who picks last always sighs and says "ugh. why do we have to have her?'' But she is not "popular" and has been basically ignored as the new student. I am sort of in disbelief that this sort of blatant bullying/popularity contest is allowed in PE class.
jego914 let me clue you in on something. This was happening LONG BEFORE the 1980s. It is whenever you get "cliques" together and you are "outside of the clique" WHATEVER your age or abilities. Wife and I experienced it in school in the 1960s and 1970s. Let's NOT blow it up and call it "institutionalized bullying" or start calling out the lawyers. I admit, it probably hurts your daughter's feelings. Have you approached the school officials and discussed it with them? Adults even act this way sometimes, not to excuse it. Maybe once your daughter gets better known by the others and has demonstrated her athletic abilities they will start preferring her instead of dreading her.
Really? Then where are they going to learn how to handle rejection? At home where they are given anything and everything they want and their parents fuss because their child was picked last?
Why is it that children cannot learn how to handle rejection around other children at school but parents expect school teacher to teach their children how to behave because the parents just don't have time, or they are tired or it is easier to just give in to what the child wants to hush them or.........
Kids don't need lessons in handling rejection from teachers. They need to learn resilience, by empowering them to make their own decisions and letting them deal with any consequences. Don't study for a test? Deal with the poor grade. Be unkind to a friend? Lose a friend. Face rejection via the actions of a teacher?
Speak up.
To insinuate that this gym teacher is doing the kids a favor is utter nonsense.
You're applying logic and that is not what is going on here. The seemingly most athletic kids are usually chosen as captains by the teacher but from then on has little to do with ability and more to do with cliquish manipulation. You're my friend. I want you to be my friend. I want to punish the other captain by not letting them have you. I want to punish the other team by forcing them to take you. You're not my friend. You're not anyone's friend. The game being played here has nothing to do with what sport they are playing.
Exactly. And this is the one they can learn from because it's for a reason that while they may not like it, they can understand it. Katie is a better striker; easily demonstrated on the pitch.
I lived the same school era and learned those lesson's too. Learned to hate gym, PE, school itself. And you are absolutely right, this has nothing to do with being liberal or conservative. It has to do with integrity and simple manners. It is about doing right, not being right.
I agree that it has little to do with athletic ability. My ds was very athletic, but he was also small and kids did not perceive him as athletic until they saw what he could do. And, even after that, he was not one of the popular crowd - he was quirky and nerdy and very good at academics as well as at sports (believe it or not he was short, but was good at basketball as well as soccer and running). I don't think he was picked last for teams because the gym teachers chose the teams, but he was certainly not going to be picked early for pick up games on the playground.
My brother was a division I lefthanded pitcher who went on to play minor league baseball, and in youth, was a quiet, unassuming kid who was never picked for teams. His twin, a gregarious showboat personality, was very popular, and usually a first pick, due to his charisma vs. actual ability.
I can't believe this is actually being considered bullying. My god this country is going soft and it's not doing anyone any favors. If she's really so athletic and dominant, then she should go out and prove herself to the other kids who aren't aware of her capabilities yet, and try to win them over. You know, kind of like what us adults need to do in every day life
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cape Cod Todd
The old school yard pick has been going on forever. The TV show Survivor often does it and you can tell who is picked first and who is picked last.
In the school it is silly to pick on popularity when it should be for athletic skill. When your daughter shows them her skills is she still picked last? I would rather have a winner on my team than a friend.
I think that being picked last is a snub but it is your responsibility OP to teach your daughter that those kids don't matter. There are bigger things to worry about. This is a good chance to give your child a life lesson.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ankhharu
Whether than whining about it, she should dominate like she is supposedly capable of. But I guess the American thing to do nowawadays is cry foul and find ways to coddle kids. No wonder they're unprepared for anything. As long as we are teaching them not to stand up for themselves for fight for themselves, we will see a rise in "giving up" like all the kids committing suicide unable to handle bullying. As if it's some new epidemic.
I can't believe this is actually being considered bullying. My god this country is going soft and it's not doing anyone any favors. If she's really so athletic and dominant, then she should go out and prove herself to the other kids who aren't aware of her capabilities yet, and try to win them over. You know, kind of like what us adults need to do in every day life
Whether or not you want to label it "bullying," which is really neither here nor there, it is still social ostracism.
"Just kick ass and show 'em," is only useful advice if the primary concern is having athletic prowess noticed. It appears that the primary concern is not, in fact, having skill recognized, but being socially accepted. Being the best soccer player won't help if you're the best soccer player that nobody likes, and if being liked is what you value and desire, moreso than being recognized for athletic skill.
Your capabilities alone don't "win over" people who have already decided to ostracize you...in fact, many times, they trigger jealousy and make others redouble efforts to exclude, and make you a target. This is even more common in females than in males. Being the most skilled often works seriously to your disadvantage, if the dislike is already rooted, because the skill is resented.
That is not bullying IMO. Someone is always going to be picked last. Growing up it was the same thing, team captains and kids picked their teams.
My sisters daughters attend a Catholic school and was having problems too at the beginning of the school year. She is the new girl. She is also a minority (she's white). The school is mostly Hispanic. Her daughter does not speak fluent Spanish (she's 8) so she is ignored. The little girls even made some not so nice comments and speak in Spanish around her. She had a very hard time.
Funny thing is my sister herself was ignored by the other parents. Many of the parents are well to do and my sister always showed up with hair pulled back, no makeup and in Army BDU's. My sister said they would not give her the time of day. Finally after several months one of the moms approached her and asked what do you do in the Army? My sister replied, I'm a Doctor, Ob gyn. After that my sister was "accepted", and her daughter was invited to birthday parties.
I can't help but think there is just a different culture when you are paying tuition.
So- my daughter started a new Catholic elementary school this year. It is a small, cliquey school. Seems to be major favoritism at work here. So...in PE- the teacher allows the students to choose teams (generally the same few kids chosen as captains). According to my daughter she is always picked last- and the captain who picks last always sighs and says "ugh. why do we have to have her?'' Now- here is the interesting part- my daughter is probably the most athletic child in the grade. She plays travel for three sports. But she is not "popular" and has been basically ignored as the new student. I am sort of in disbelief that this sort of blatant bullying/popularity contest is allowed in PE class. These are 4th graders! This seems very 1980's to me. Thoughts?
It is not a serious sporting competition. It is PE Class, and they are 4th graders. They care more about having fun with their friends then the end result of the game in which they are about to play. In fact, is that not a better message to be teaching them at that age: have fun, be sportsmanlike, and winning isn't everything? If its very 1980's, then its survived 35 years because it is effective.
I can actually relate very well to the details to your situation, though, having moved from ME to PA in January with three kids, one of which is in 4th grade, in a small town public school district. While my kids have had no problem getting acclimated and making friends, I suggest that if you don't think you're daughter is comfortable yet with her classmates then I would suggest talking to her teachers and school administrators to see where her problem might be, and how they can become better addressed..... instead of blaming the school.
I was always grateful to be picked last, it always meant I didn't have to get all sweaty the first thing in the morning.
Teams should always be picked, it better prepares children to grow into adults who know how to handle rejection.
Thank you! That's what I was going to say. Life isn't always fair, and we coddle this generation far too much. It never bothered me if I was picked late, but I know it will bother some kids. If they can't handle it, then how are they going to handle the workforce?
If this girl is as athletic as the mother says, she'll probably end up being picked early in the future. Before looking at different schools, she should give her daughter a chance to get to know some kids and she should do fine. If it persists, then definitely change schools. That's the beauty of private school...you're not stuck there like public school.
I wouldn't call it bullying. It is despicable, however. Adults should never encourage ostracism. I graduated high school in 1975. I have etched in my memory many episodes of adults acting like the children they are supposed to mentor.
On the other hand, I just posted a few weeks ago in an obituary site paeans to a music teacher/band leader that went out of his way to teach principals of cooperation, inclusiveness and just being nice. And there was nothing politically liberal about him.
That's not shocking since politically liberal people aren't always inclusive or nice. Ask any conservative who was invited to speak on a college campus in the last five years.
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