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More speculation on your part. Removing "jocks" and cheerleaders from a school does NOT eliminate the chance for bullying.
ANYONE can rank on any other kid. Band kids were the worst in our high school. But with smart kids, it's bad because you sometimes don't see it coming. They can get pretty creative.
My kid who was certified gifted had a HUGE problem with another kid in his program.
Intelligence certainly doesn't make you nicer.
Your best bet is to focus on one year at a time and learn firsthand rather than just imagining from home.
Good advice and for OP.. I would say one marking period at a time.
I haven't thought that far ahead in detail because honestly at this point I can't yet predict what his aptitude level be like at that point, what his interests and capabilities and strengths will be, what our circumstances will be as a family etc.
But ideally yes, I would like him in advanced classes in his age group. I would absolutely not be okay with skipping grades in school. The ideal scenario would be the full-time gifted program. By high school, there are many options to do AP or college-level work like Running Start which I would encourage him to take advantage of. However my concern at the moment is more in maintaining his motivation and that amazing curiousity and love of learning until he gets there. That's my worry, that he'll lose it somewhere along the way. If he's still driven, motivated, and learning-focused by high school, I'm not worried about him finding the right options.
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
You will get a rude awakening if/when your son get into that competitive environment. They have their issues too.
I have not read every post in this thread, I'm just a mom of a gifted "now adult" who was in a similar situation.
Said child entered kindergarten when she was not quite 5 because the cutoff was the end of September. I sought the opinion from the school principal, a seasoned older woman who I felt would have good advice. I explained that our daughter could read, did simple math, had an advanced vocabulary, preferred to play with older children, and had a unique interest in science especially dinosaurs. The principal encouraged me to put her in kindergarten when she was legally allowed, not to hold her back a year.
I will be the first to admit that I already knew my child was an introvert (as our both her parents, that being me and my husband!), was socially awkward with kids her own age (she had a difficult time entering a social situation that was already established), preferred books to people, was not interested in sports or even playing in teams (and later learned to hate group projects in school), and had some odd quirks about food/textures/jokes (sarcasm), etc. Some professionals we consulted over the years suggested that she meets quite a few criteria for Aspergers. And then some just said Aspergers criteria are very closely aligned with what we expect from gifted people...Sheldon-esque. Yes, we love Big Bang Theory in our house. To label or not to label, that is the question!
So I sent her off to this very highly rated public school with a kindergarten teacher who had been teaching that grade for over 15 years. School started at the beginning of September. By October she told me she was bored and the teacher told her that they needed to learn their alphabet and she was not allowed to read in class. By the end of October the teacher told me that my child was found hiding behind the bookshelf a few times when they could not locate her during recess on the playground. In November I received a call at work that she had thrown the macaroni necklace project on the table and disappeared into the hallway...they couldn't find her. Eventually she was found sitting on the floor between the tall book stacks in the library, quietly reading. Even the librarian didn't know she was there. In December and January she experienced some mystery illness that the pediatrician couldn't diagnose, but anyone who knew our daughter feared the worst...she looked like she had leukemia, pasty white, sunken dull eyes, lethargic. She seemed to recover after a bit, went back to school having missed about 6 weeks, the teacher seemed to be warmer towards her. But at the end of the school year there were two children recommended to be held back, our daughter and another girl with the same birth date. I might mention that there were quite a few immature boys between the AM and PM sessions, parents of these boys who had conversation with me about wanting to hold their boys an additional year hoping for maturity (vs making them more physically eligible for sports by high school) yet none of them were held back.
Long story short, we found a very progressive teacher in the next zone over who we interviewed for about 3 hours before deciding she would be a good fit for our daughter. She let our daughter fly in reading, encouraging her to check out lots of books on library day, adjusting questions in class to specific levels (some kids were asked to point out a specific alphabet letter, our daughter might be asked to point out the silent e at the end that makes the first vowel say its name), always had interesting science projects going in class (I remember the nature walks, ladybug farm, and butterfly metamorphosis activities)...in short, this was a great year.
Then it was back to the zoned school for first grade with no choice of teachers because we were not there in the current kinder class to get first dibs. In short, first grade sucked. But we were encouraged to have her tested for IQ, and entrance to the gifted program starting in 3rd grade. We decided to have her tested privately as my husband worked in the district and did not prefer the district psychologists' methods. We had her tested at a well-respected university that offered testing services to the public. Her results showed her as gifted, but as some of the above have mentioned, somewhat uneven. Her verbal scores were off the child chart. So certain subtests were administered using the adult scale. On the other hand, her spacial scale was gifted but not to the extent of the verbal.
In the end we started homeschooling full time in 4th grade when she was being teased by other students when she attended the gifted pull out program, other parents in the neighborhood with kids in the same grade started complaining to the school when they found out she was not held responsible for work done in the classroom while she was gone (they felt if their kids had math homework, then our daughter should have to do the same plus the work they did in class...they did not understand that she had homework from her gifted classroom, nor did they care), and life just became miserable.
Our child is now finishing her thesis for a masters degree, still has trouble with social situations (late teenage years were really difficult as she experienced the dating scene, adulthood still leaves her feeling odd, still prefers older cohorts), still has food and texture quirks (she doesn't like her food to touch on her plate, doesn't like the texture of sweaters and tights, and NEVER would she wear pantyhose). Academics has always been easy for her but social interactions remain difficult.
My bottom line is that there is no guarantee that personality traits will change if you leave them in a conventional classroom. I don't believe they are trainable traits. Certainly our daughter still ,in her early 20s, has many of the same traits that she had in kindergarten. I wouldn't say that being in a conventional classroom changed anything about socializing, fine motor (or in her case large motor) skills, or her ability to learn. In the end, as a parent we all have to choose what is the next best move for our child. This is often made more difficult by opinions of extended family and friends. We struggled. We still struggle. But in the end she is a productive and independent citizen. I feel that I have succeeded as a parent. We have to remember that everyone is perfect just the way they are. Quit trying to label them or fix them as long as they are moving forward.
You will get a rude awakening if/when your son get into that competitive environment. They have their issues too.
All environments can have "issues". Just stop over to the work and employment forum or the relationships forum sometime, and those are all "mature" adults with problems.
I haven't thought that far ahead in detail because honestly at this point I can't yet predict what his aptitude level be like at that point, what his interests and capabilities and strengths will be, what our circumstances will be as a family etc.
But ideally yes, I would like him in advanced classes in his age group. I would absolutely not be okay with skipping grades in school. The ideal scenario would be the full-time gifted program. By high school, there are many options to do AP or college-level work like Running Start which I would encourage him to take advantage of. However my concern at the moment is more in maintaining his motivation and that amazing curiousity and love of learning until he gets there. That's my worry, that he'll lose it somewhere along the way. If he's still driven, motivated, and learning-focused by high school, I'm not worried about him finding the right options.
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
My wife was captain of cheerleaders at her High School. She was also Valedictorian and ended up becoming one of the most senior partners at a Big 4 accounting firm.
My father was captain of the cricket team at his school in England and ended up as a Senior Lecturer in Experimental Pharmacology.
I played rugby at school and at Uni and football (soccer) for the company team. But I was only an ordinary partner at my Big 4 with a decent Honours degree and an MBA. A bit of an under-achiever!
You have way too many preconceived ideas.
And you want it to be like a college campus where, according to my father, academic advancement is a combination of nepotism and necrophilia? I also spent 4 years working at CERN. The politics in academic institutions are vicious and while the bullying is intellectual, it is very much there.
How is life in that rose tinted fantasy world of yours?
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
Why would you assume it is the presence of jocks and cheerleaders that leads to bullying? All of my sons were gifted in elementary school and took/are taking honors/AP classes in high school. They also all played sports in high school. My oldest is playing sports in college (and graduating early, with honors). His girlfriend was a cheerleader in HS and college. She graduated from college and is currently in a PA program.
Being an athlete doesn't mean being stupid or being a bully.
I haven't thought that far ahead in detail because honestly at this point I can't yet predict what his aptitude level be like at that point, what his interests and capabilities and strengths will be, what our circumstances will be as a family etc.
But ideally yes, I would like him in advanced classes in his age group. I would absolutely not be okay with skipping grades in school. The ideal scenario would be the full-time gifted program. By high school, there are many options to do AP or college-level work like Running Start which I would encourage him to take advantage of. However my concern at the moment is more in maintaining his motivation and that amazing curiousity and love of learning until he gets there. That's my worry, that he'll lose it somewhere along the way. If he's still driven, motivated, and learning-focused by high school, I'm not worried about him finding the right options.
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
In a way you have to consider that far ahead and think about what he is doing now and how it may affect his education later. If he is 2-3 grades ahead in 3rd grade there is nothing left for him to learn in elementary and your options will be very limited. If you focus on the things he needs to learn in Kindergarten...social, emotional, physical, school environment etc., and let him be the success story of the class academically, then you can still challenge him at home to keep him progressing. You can guide his progressing such that it will still keep him challenged but allow him to still fit in with his peers.
Just as you cannot predict exactly where he will be in the future, you also cannot predict where he will not be. He may very well want to play a sport, or he may be a talented artist/musician, or he may even rebel at the more challenging academics and want to be a regular student.
So, I suggest not focusing on what you know he can do, focus on improving the things he cannot do or do well. Let the successes ride for a bit and see what else he has inside him. Had we not done that with our son we would have never realized he was a very talented percussionist. Go figure. Plus he is a very good baseball player that he wants to play just for fun, not competitive. Instead of him being defined by his IQ or academic accomplishments, he is fits into many categories outside of that as well. His academics have not suffered by him not taking classes so far ahead of his classmates, however he is still way ahead of them in both math and reading. (he was doing calculus with his sister the other night.....a couple of math nerds for sure!)
We may be bad parents but we made our daughter do sports even though she wasn't good at them.
Our logic was other kids struggled through school (which came easy to her) and learning how to do things that you're not uniquely talented at is an important life skill. Her first tryout for volleyball she had to deal with the stress of "what if I'm not good enough". It created something she had to work hard at, empathy for the less talented (which she was in sports) and a social group for her.
As it turned out she had a chance to play college volleyball. As a kid who graduated with over a 99% average the places she could play at were not the places she wanted to go academically so she isn't playing anymore, but her life was far richer for the experience.
A critical life skill IS working with those that are different.
Been lurking for a while! Down to #292: (I'll skip the much earlier stuff and pick up where the conversation is now.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
Just saw this!
So this may be relevant to this thread: my kid's school has a CTY math program built into the curriculum. For the uninitiated, CTY=Center For Talented Youth. It's a gifted child enrichment program run out of Johns Hopkins University. This is how it works at our school:
Towards the end kindergarten, the teacher recommends children to be tested for CTY (basically, children suspected to be gifted in math).
Students who pass the test are notified when they return for 1st grade. From that point on, they are pulled out of class to do their math instruction in another room with a teacher certified in CTY instruction. Most of their work is online with a program that adapts to their level as they go along. Most of the kids are doing math at least 2 grades ahead. The program lasts until 5th grade. If you test into this, you are also eligible to participate in CTY's other online classes, summer camps and other programs for gifted kids.
The interesting part: They make all kids in the program retest in the 4th grade. At that point, a huge amount of kids TEST OUT. They no longer test at a "gifted" level, despite the fact they did at kindergarten and they have all been exposed to the same accelerated math curriculum. Meanwhile, new kids test in.
So there is definitely some truth to the idea that some kids who appear gifted at one age prove to be just really bright kids later on. Not that that's bad. It's still pretty rad.
The overall CTY program tests again in the 8th grade, I believe. It's known that some kids test out at that benchmark as well.
OP, take note of the bold. Let your child settle in to K first. I kind of disagree with those who suggest home schooling. You're busy enough with a new baby.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina
It's all in the approach really. Just like you wouldn't go to your pediatrician appointments with printouts of reports from medical journals and a suggestion of which medicine to prescribe, you shouldn't begin your appointment with the teacher with suggestions on how precisely to develop curriculum for your child. That's all.
It's not national. It covers certain east coast states and California. Duke University has a similar program that covers the south, and there is one (out of Northwestern? U Chicago?) That covers the mid west and west. I think all of them cover California... I'm not sure.
Having worked in a doctor's office, believe me, people do that, especially the underlined. Then sometimes the doc has to explain why that drug isn't the best drug for their kid's condition.
CTY, DukeTIP, Vanderbilt VSA and other similar programs have the kids take the SAT in 7th grade. The programs that they are eligible to attend are based on their 7th grade test scores.
Also the University of Denver in the mountain west. It's called Rocky Mountain Talent Search.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilCookie
I haven't thought that far ahead in detail because honestly at this point I can't yet predict what his aptitude level be like at that point, what his interests and capabilities and strengths will be, what our circumstances will be as a family etc.
But ideally yes, I would like him in advanced classes in his age group. I would absolutely not be okay with skipping grades in school. The ideal scenario would be the full-time gifted program. By high school, there are many options to do AP or college-level work like Running Start which I would encourage him to take advantage of. However my concern at the moment is more in maintaining his motivation and that amazing curiousity and love of learning until he gets there. That's my worry, that he'll lose it somewhere along the way. If he's still driven, motivated, and learning-focused by high school, I'm not worried about him finding the right options.
If he keeps with the techy interests, my hope for him would be to get into the new STEM high school that opened here recently. It's a lottery school which is unfortunate. But from what I've heard (they did an article on it and interviewed students at local paper), t would be the perfect hs environment for that type of kid - there are no sports, no jocks and cheerleaders, no homecoming, and I'm assuming no to minimal bullying or other bs that comes with most high schools. It seems to be like a college campus already - made up of smart, focused students who are there because they want to learn, not create drama or win popularity contests. Perfect way around most teenage social problems imo.
Like so many others have said, no guarantees that it would be the "perfect" environment. I'm kind of surprised at no sports. Denver School of Science and Technology has sports and actually says this about them on its website: "The athletic program is an integral part of DSST's curriculum and emphasizes living the school's Core Values. In order to fulfill graduation requirements, students must successfully complete 4 trimesters of athletics, lifetime activities or outside athletic participation." Sports offered: high school boy sports include soccer, tennis, football, basketball, baseball, and cross country. Competitive high school girl sports include volleyball, soccer, basketball and cross country. Sports electives include dance, kickboxing, Nike golf, softball, weight training, yoga, roller hockey, and ultimate frisbee. Also, in Colorado if you want to do a sport your HS does not offer, you can do so at the next nearest school. Colleges have these activities, too. I'm getting all sorts of notices about my college homecoming!
Quote:
Originally Posted by germaine2626
All environments can have "issues". Just stop over to the work and employment forum or the relationships forum sometime, and those are all "mature" adults with problems.
Absolutely!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggy001
My wife was captain of cheerleaders at her High School. She was also Valedictorian and ended up becoming one of the most senior partners at a Big 4 accounting firm.
My father was captain of the cricket team at his school in England and ended up as a Senior Lecturer in Experimental Pharmacology.
I played rugby at school and at Uni and football (soccer) for the company team. But I was only an ordinary partner at my Big 4 with a decent Honours degree and an MBA. A bit of an under-achiever!
You have way too many preconceived ideas.
And you want it to be like a college campus where, according to my father, academic advancement is a combination of nepotism and necrophilia? I also spent 4 years working at CERN. The politics in academic institutions are vicious and while the bullying is intellectual, it is very much there.
How is life in that rose tinted fantasy world of yours?
Both of my daughters were captains of the gymnastics team (different years, of course); both graduated in the top 10% of their classes and went on to earn advanced degrees in science areas (physical therapy and public health). My husband played IM football for Caltech, went on to get a PhD in physics from the University of Illinois.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
Why would you assume it is the presence of jocks and cheerleaders that leads to bullying? All of my sons were gifted in elementary school and took/are taking honors/AP classes in high school. They also all played sports in high school. My oldest is playing sports in college (and graduating early, with honors). His girlfriend was a cheerleader in HS and college. She graduated from college and is currently in a PA program.
Being an athlete doesn't mean being stupid or being a bully.
Exactly! A girl that both my kids competed against in HS gymnastics went on to college gymnastics and graduated early from the University of Denver.
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