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Old 10-24-2015, 10:51 PM
 
6,319 posts, read 6,251,880 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lae60 View Post
Lack of Social Development???

You have got to be kidding!

This month my son has 2 weekends camping with Boy Scouts, and one additional Saturday doing a fair with Boy Scouts, operating a booth. Plus the weekly meeting.

My daughter went through a corn maze at the pumpkin patch with Girl Scouts plus the biweekly meetings this month.

Both have weekly classes at a kid's culinary arts class with about 12-20 kids that are signed up--some come each week, some come for a month then others take their place.

Both have martial arts weekly lessons, but can go twice a week if their schedules permit. These classes have about 15 kids, some the same for years, other new every few weeks.

They also swim about once a week at a public pool with whoever else is there.

This month they also went to the Grand Canyon Pumpkin Train ride and played with other kids at the pool there and at the haunted train and hay bale maze. This was a long holiday weekend trip.

They also go to the Boy's and Girl's Club M-F if they want after school to do the activities, crafts and sports with the other kids.

One would have to look hard to find 2 consecutive days where they do not have social interactions outside of the family!

And October is not even a busy month!

And my kid's schedule is not that different from other homeschooled kids I know.
Think back to your own childhood.

The most profound and memorable experiences you have with your peers almost definitely occurred when adults weren't about.

Home schooling denies children this sort of interaction, entirely. You simply cannot schedule or fake the experience of growing up with a village around you.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
4,426 posts, read 10,246,787 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cindersslipper View Post
Think back to your own childhood.

The most profound and memorable experiences you have with your peers almost definitely occurred when adults weren't about.

Home schooling denies children this sort of interaction, entirely.
No, it doesn't.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,387 posts, read 32,323,612 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
Lol you both are delusional, but it reinforces why I believe in homeschooling.....

For anyone who's considering homeschooling.....

Do it

Public schools are basically nothing more than a babysitting service
Do you know what delusional means? I'm delusional because I believe that someone who had a formal education in a time when it was actually rare to have a formal education was not home schooled??? If you want to see delusional look in the mirror. In spite of the fact that homeschooling involves mostly a demographic that is VERY successful in public or private school all homeschooling can lay claim to is being better than average. That same demographic does FANTASTIC in public or private school. So why don't they in homeschooling? Compare apples to apples and you'll see that homeschooling isn't delivering what a formal education can.

As a teacher I do much more than baby sit. If you look at just the demographic that traditionally homeschools, we're hitting home runs. However, as a teacher I know that that is largely due to demographics. We play our part in that we can offer more to our higher students because we know more but we couldn't deliver that high outcome without demographics on our side. Most of my energy will be spent on students who are struggling. The impact I have there varies as some teachers are better at dealing with kids with certain issues than others. I've come to accept that all kinds of teachers are needed because kids come with all kinds of issues and some connect better with struggling learners of various types (ie., lacking prerequisite knowledge, lazy, have given up, dealing with home lives that suck, etc, etc, etc...).

My issues with homeschooling stem from the fact that the demographic that homeschools does extremely well in public school but only performs better than average when homeschooled. This is in spite of the fact that we're comparing what is usually a top demographic to the entire spectrum in public schools. Fortunately, those are the kids who do well no matter where you plant them so I think they'll do fine in spite of the fact they most likely would have done better in public school. IMO they do have one advantage and that is the ability to self teach. That is something many of my students won't learn until they get to college but they'll learn it. For that top demographic, in the end, I don't think it matters how they were educated as kids. However, I do not think for one second we should be doing anything to promote homeschooling because it's clear that the success it has is only due to demographics. If we were to encourage other demographics to homeschool the results could be disastrous.

Last edited by Ivorytickler; 10-25-2015 at 07:49 AM..
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:03 AM
 
Location: california
6,264 posts, read 5,492,690 times
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We tried public school several times and they repeatedly failed, so we home schooled, and the kids passed the GED with flying colors and are working and responsible citizens today.
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Old 10-25-2015, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Florida
7,198 posts, read 4,569,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
No. Home schooling actually isn't that effective. It just appears that way because the demographic that homeschools is the same demographic that does well in publics school but when you compare them to public schools you include the ENTIRE demographic not just that one. The demographic that homeschools is usually two parent households with enough income (demonstrated by the financial ability to have one parent stay home and homeschool), parents who care about education AND kids for whom homeschooling works (if it doesn't work they return their kids to the public schools so public schools have to count homeschooling failures. I've had a dozen or so in my classes over the years and it ain't pretty but neither are our own failures.). It's not my students who come from this demographic who are failing my classes. Parents who care about education is HUGE. Yes the homeschooling crowd does as well or better than the entire cross section that is in public schools but if you looked at just the same demographic in public schools I would bet my 403b that they would blow the socks off of the homeschooling crowd. When I look at the demographic that home schools I'm left scratching my head as to why all they can manage is to be better than average. They should be FANTASTIC. Give me a room full of kids from two parent, financially stable households with parents who care about education and I'll look like the best teacher who ever lived. Those are the kids who want to learn and who have help at home. They're easy to educate. Public schools however deal with everything that walks through the door. Dad's in prison, drunk moms who care more about getting laid than whether their child can read, kids from single parent households with parents who care but have no time or energy left at the end of the day, kids whose parents have died, etc, etc, etc... No we should not push home schooling. There is no evidence that homeschooling results have anything to do with anything other than demographics. If you start making the single mom who is working two jobs homeschool you will not see the same results. Her kids need more support than she can give.

From what I can see homeschooling isn't about education so much as it is about control. I've known several people who homeschooled and had couple of dozen home school returnees in my classes over the years. There's only one case that stands out in my mind where homeschooling was for the child not the parent and that kid had an IQ out of the ballpark. What he REALLY needed was to be in a G&T school but they're expensive. Homeschooling was a good second choice for him. He came to the school I worked at to take classes his parents could not teach like chemistry, calculus and physics. Homeschooling is popular in my church but it's about two things: Mom justifying SAH and control over what children are exposed to. I have one friend who had ZERO interest in homeschooling until her youngest of five kids started first grade and her husband commented that he was relieved that she could get a job now and help out with the finances. All of a sudden it became IMPERITIVE that she homeschool her high schooler in spite of the fact he was attending the best high school in the city....and he pretty much homeschooled himself as did her next four children. Each of her kids was homeschooled for high school when they could just take online courses. She never did get that job. We just roll our eyes when she talks about how great homeschooling is.

I will give you one thing. The homeschooled kids I've known were usually better at learning on their own. Most likely because that's what they were used to and that is a skill that will serve them well in college. I think too much hand holding is done in public schools because schools are worried about how well kids do on the high stakes tests. Sometimes I wish I could just let kids who don't want to work learn from the natural consequences of their choice and let them fail. They don't learn anything when someone else swoops in to fix the issue to keep them on track other than to expect someone else to swoop in and fix their issues. The ability to learn independently is the one positive I see in homeschooling that you don't get in public school. Everything else we do better once demographics is accounted for. The problem is people don't realize that you're comparing a section of the top to everyone else when you compare homeschooling to public schooling. As I said. They SHOULD look FANTASTIC but they don't. The only claim they can make is they're slightly better than average. That makes me scratch my head as it shouldn't be.
I don't have time this morning to research this thoroughly, but do you happen to have any links re: the bolded? If I remember correctly, everything I've read has said that homeschooled kid score in the 70th to 85th percentiles. I'd say that's quite a bit more than "slightly better than average." Remember also that homeschooled kids are generally not "taught to the test" for months beforehand... Unless you are talking about some other indicator of success?

Other than that, I agree with you that demographics are key. Involved, literate parents make a huge difference.

With that being said, however, I think you are misunderstanding why parents homeschool. It's not about control in my family; if anything, it's about allowing our kids the freedom to learn what they want in the way that works best for them and to follow their passions. I own a business; it's certainly not about trying to avoid working! And we are not religious homeschoolers, so controlling what they're exposed to does not apply, either. Most of the homeschoolers I know are very similar to myself. I think you are a bit sheltered if you think that the only homeschoolers that exist are like the ones in your church, to be honest.
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:41 AM
 
12,889 posts, read 10,050,536 times
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Kids are all different. Public, private, home schooled. I think it depends on the child. I do hate the crappy quality of American education. Totally gone to heck.
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Old 10-25-2015, 09:45 AM
 
9,011 posts, read 8,911,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterseat View Post
Kids are all different. Public, private, home schooled. I think it depends on the child. I do hate the crappy quality of American education. Totally gone to heck.
Lol I concur-
The American school system is embarrassing.....

Homeschooling is the better way
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:22 AM
 
16,848 posts, read 19,547,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by believe007 View Post
Hmmmm well reading through this thread has piqued my curiosity....
I just had to look up people who I'm sure some of you didn't know were homeschooled:

Tim Tebow
John Legend
Julian Assange
Albert Einstein
J.R.R. Tolkien


That's just a few-- there's literally dozens of famous intellectuals,
geniuses & artists that were homeschooled....

It really makes a case for homeschooling.

Oh & I'm going to ignore the uneducated posts in this thread that attack homeschooling

Success speaks for itself
Albert Einstein was homeschooled for only one year - and was sent to primary school at 6 and 1/2.

http://www.albert-einstein.org/article_handicap.html

Quote:
After one year of homeschooling, Albert was sent to primary school, entering second grade already at age 6 ½. He may not easily have accommodated himself to the school’s expected mindless obedience and discipline aimed at instilling authoritarian civic virtues. Unable – or unwilling - to provide quick automatic responses, the boy was considered only moderately talented by his teachers. Yet at the end of his first school year his mother could proudly relate that Albert's report card was splendid and his second term marks again put him at the top of his class. If the stigma of the "bright under-achiever" - "The Einstein Factor" - had been justified at any time, now it was no more the case. The fact that, at the age of 9 ½, Albert was accepted to the competitive Luitpold-Gymnasium, disproves any observable learning disabilities. Had his grades in primary school not been above average, his entrance into the Gymnasium would not have been possible.
Note Einstein was speaking at 2 to 2.5, when his little sister was born, so while this was comparatively late, it was not what people say it was.
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 10,455,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bande1102 View Post
I homeschooled my 3 children, while working f/t, from birth thru high school. Two have graduated college and third is midway thru----at 16.

I would have loved cash; but I would've also loved a tax credit, for even a portion of what was given to the school for each of my children.

I also would have appreciated having access to things my local school district denied us b/c my kids didn't attend the school, despite the fact that the schools were still getting money for my kids.

For example, my homeschool group (comprised entirely of kids who would have attended that particular school) was denied use of the gym; despite the fact that other local organizations were allowed to use it. We were denied resources, like the school's library, nor were our children allowed to participate in extracurricular sports.

We worked around all of those obstacles, but still.....
I agree. As a homeschooler for years it would have been nice just to allow me to keep what I was paying to public school even though my three kids didn't use it. I was paying out of pocket for my supplies at the same time I was helping supply them for other kids.
We always thought of it as doing our part for others but the extra write off would have been useful.

As far as encouraging homeschooling, I do. I also see room for something in between. Virtual schools are expanding and helping parents. Kids can work from home or even at bases with computers. They usually spend a third less time and the costs are less. It's also still publicly funded, and has some clubs.

Homeschooling is great but it does take a dedicated parent or two willing to split it up. Plus, a point brought up earlier on, two income families would have a hard time with this option. Virtual options could help with the fact that a lot of public school is daycare with benefits. It's relatively safe option for your child if you both work all day, and a lot cheaper than hiring care. This is the largest hurdle we have in my opinion. It takes a two family income to make a living and public school provides a safe place for your child as well as the benefit of an education, even if it isn't a good as a home education.
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Old 10-25-2015, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Hyrule
8,390 posts, read 10,455,061 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnotherTouchOfWhimsy View Post
I don't have time this morning to research this thoroughly, but do you happen to have any links re: the bolded? If I remember correctly, everything I've read has said that homeschooled kid score in the 70th to 85th percentiles. I'd say that's quite a bit more than "slightly better than average." Remember also that homeschooled kids are generally not "taught to the test" for months beforehand... Unless you are talking about some other indicator of success?

Other than that, I agree with you that demographics are key. Involved, literate parents make a huge difference.

With that being said, however, I think you are misunderstanding why parents homeschool. It's not about control in my family; if anything, it's about allowing our kids the freedom to learn what they want in the way that works best for them and to follow their passions. I own a business; it's certainly not about trying to avoid working! And we are not religious homeschoolers, so controlling what they're exposed to does not apply, either. Most of the homeschoolers I know are very similar to myself. I think you are a bit sheltered if you think that the only homeschoolers that exist are like the ones in your church, to be honest.
I agree and I hold similar views. Ivory's post was very narrow in my opinion and they should research more about it as it's easy to do. You can find religious extremism in homeschooling and in traditional schools. There are also parochial schools of all kinds.

I'm not religious, my children are very worldly. Our family views are more futuristic. I believe virtual education will enhance the worlds participation, you can already see it in poorer countries around the world. Public schools are just so limited in what they can provide, it's simply a choice, not the best choice.
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